Post By stanleyk
Post By Ray Sachs
January 30th, 2013, 09:11 PM
More X100S info
Thoughts From My Camera: Fujifilm X100s - First Look
This guy works for Fuji so take it for what it's worth. However there are some good shots of the camera and some info on it's new features. I know a lot of people are interested in Auto ISO (something I don't use). He has a images from the LCD to show how it works. Also there are some good examples of the how the Digital Split Image works.
Last edited by stanleyk; January 30th, 2013 at 09:13 PM.
January 30th, 2013, 09:23 PM
The X100 had the most frustrating auto-ISO implementation I've ever used. Then the X-10 and X-Pro had a much much better setup, but pretty standard. Now the X100s has what looks like the best implementation I've seen and, ironically it's kind of based on the approach they used in the original X100, but just laid out about a zillion times more intelligently. This was one of the first things I saw when this camera was announced.
January 31st, 2013, 04:59 AM
What I'm wondering about, regarding auto ISO, is whether they've finally implemented it properly in manual mode. If you set both the aperture and the shutter speed, IMO all cameras should still allow you to use auto ISO. The X100 does, which is nice, but then it doesn't allow you to dial in exposure compensation; if you're on auto ISO, you have no choice other than to use whatever exposure the camera thinks is right, which is lame. Ofcourse you can set ISO manually, but if you're changing back and forth between dark to bright scenes a lot, that's very impractical. Would be much nicer to just have it on auto ISO and change exposure compensation as you see fit.
January 31st, 2013, 05:14 AM
That's a good question - I sort of doubt it (for no particular reason other than so few HAVE done that so far), but I don't think we'll know until its out in people's hands. It looks like they're still maintaining their fastest minimum shutter speed at 1/125, which I don't love (Ricoh goes to 1/250 in the GXR). I was only complimenting them on sticking all of their ISO options, including Auto, in one menu, and putting the particular subset things for auto-ISO in a sub-menu off of the Auto setting. Most makers don't make it that easy and in the original X100 Fuji put the auto ISO setting and it's particular sub-settings in another menu seemingly on the other side of the world. So I'm happy to see what they have done, but I'll be a bit surprised if they allow auto ISO and exposure comp in manual mode. It's nice that they're allowing a maximum of 6400 now within the auto menu (I think I read that?), but that next step seems to be a tougher one - whether technically or philosophically I don't know.
January 31st, 2013, 05:27 AM
So can someone explain in a few sentences what exactly the problem is with the auto ISO setup in the X100? It is not the first time I heard about this but have not really been able to find an explanation that made sense to me..:). Reason I ask is that I am very interested in the X100s, but with prices dropping quickly for the X100 (currently about 50% of expected X100s sales price) that might be a good alternative as well, but I shoot auto ISO mostly, so if that is an issue on the X100 that might push me to the (significantly more expensive) X100s. Is it just a matter of more confusing set up but working well once that is done? Or is it more problematic than that?
January 31st, 2013, 05:59 AM
If it could be explained easily, it wouldn't have been all that bad!
Originally Posted by Pim
I don't remember all of the strangeness that was in the original setup or how much of it they'd improved in firmware, but it was initially bizarre and eventually only slightly less so. The X100 had two main roots to their menu system, as I recall, shooting and setup. A list of manual ISO values was available in the shooting menu, easily available to the FN button. So far so good. But the setting to enable auto ISO was nowhere close to that in the menu structure - it was buried one or two menus deep over in the setup menu, along with its sub-settings. So if you were content to stay in either auto or manual ISO for a whole shooting session, it was OK, but it was a real PIA to switch between the two modes while out shooting. They eventually made it possible to get to some portion of the auto-ISO menu via the FN switch, but I think you had to hold down the FN button for a couple of seconds, which enabled you to then switch the functions it controlled and then change the function of the FN button to enable and control the parameters of auto-ISO. Which was better but still a real PIA by the standards of just about any modern camera, including the X-series cameras that came after the X100. The other thing that was a source of much confusion at first, but I think I recall they cleared up in a firmware release, was that the setting in the manual ISO menu was the minimum ISO the camera would select under auto-ISO, but you set the maximum and the min shutter speed on the other side of the world in the other menu. So if you went over and selected auto ISO after you'd been shooting at say 3200, and you set the maximum ISO to 3200 but didn't remember to change the minimum via the manual ISO menu, the camera would never move off of 3200 because that was both the minimum and maximum ISO setting. So much for auto! AND, when the camera was first out the manual ISO setting (and thus the minimum under auto-ISO) was sticky (remembered) in terms of mode. So if you had it set to one value in aperture priority and another in shutter priority and yet another in program mode, when you'd switch between modes (which you don't do via a mode dial, but just the positions of the aperture ring and shutter speed dial) while in auto-ISO, the minimum ISO it would use would keep switching along with you. But this wasn't clearly documented anywhere and once I understood how this worked, I remember having to explain it to some really smart and experienced photographers who were in the process of ripping their remaining hair out trying to figure the damn camera out. THAT little surprise I'm pretty sure they removed in the first or second firmware update (and updates were flying fast and furious for a while), but it was an amazing Rube Goldberg of a nightmare in those early days. I know its not nearly AS BAD now as it was initially, but the auto and manual ISO are still controlled in totally different parts of the menu structure, now switchable via the fn button but not easily or intuitively or, thus, quickly. Its still a camera to use in one or the other mode - if you like switching between auto and manual a lot during a shooting session, which I did as I moved between street shooting (manual) and general shooting (auto) frequently during a day out, it was a bit of a nightmare. If you tend to just use one mode or the other, its not too bad.
Last edited by Ray Sachs; January 31st, 2013 at 06:03 AM.
January 31st, 2013, 06:47 AM
Thanks for your detailed explanation Ray, much appreciated! Sounds like the guy that initially developed the menu system in the X100 did so after a night on the town...:). But I am pleased to hear it is basically more a setup issue than the system not working properly once set up (and assuming you don't switch between auto and manual in that case), and that you have to know certain quirks of how the camera works in the various settings. Like I mentioned earlier I shoot auto ISO 99% of the time, so sounds like in that case there is not much of an issue once you find the right menu to set it up to your preferences as far as max ISO and shutter speed goes.
Very helpful, thanks again!
January 31st, 2013, 06:55 AM
No, if you don't move between auto and manual ISO a lot, its fine. Just set it up for auto the way you like it and you'll be fine. Its in the switching back and forth between auto and manual that it will turn your hair white by the time you're 30 years old!
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