Thread: The X10 has landed

Here is a bit of silliness...(in JPEG)


The Forgotten god by dixeyk, on Flickr


Sinbad's office by dixeyk, on Flickr

FWIW I shot the cyclops image with my NEX 5n as well and I am quite pleased on how well the X10 image holds up in comparison. It's HERE if you're interested. Of course the framing is different and the X10 has built in macro but it is interesting to see them both. The shot with the NEX was using a Vivitar 28/2 Close Focus at about F2.8 and the X10 was at F2 in macro mode. The X10 image was shot earlier in the day with better light using ISO400. The NEX image is ISO2500.

Originally Posted by Streetshooter

The jpegs on the other hand are really very good. In my previous post to chuck I explained why I use the different size files and that really is it. I don't like giving up exposure control to any camera even if it means not using the EXR engine.

Don, just to be clear, when you're using your settings with the resolution set to MF (medium fine), you ARE using the EXR engine. Its not AUTO EXR, but the EXR engine is doing its thing, just while giving you control over whichever parts of the exposure you want. I think auto DR and auto ISO is a good way to go when you're not too particular about the shutter speed it chooses. When you are, I'd set the ISO manually to keep the shutter speed where you need it. And for low light, frankly, you'd probably get better results in MF also, rather than LF, because low light and DR are the two things the EXR binning really helps with. I used to use LF for street work because I wanted the extra resolution for shots I wanted or needed to crop. And the ultimate in IQ didn't matter as much to me. But for pretty much everything else I stayed in medium res to take advantage of the EXR binning tricks...

Now with the LX7, I don't have to think this hard, which suits me ( ). The low light IQ and DR aren't as good, but that's OK - that's what my OTHER cameras are for...

But as an only/best/primary camera, the X10 would still be my choice among the compacts....

-Ray

Ray, what I mean is... if I want 1/125 f/8, I won't except the camera telling me no! So I have a compromise by letting the camera select ISO in Auto ISO. Sometimes I want control over the ISO also because I want to blow the highlights or shadows out of the Scale. With Auto ISO this is not easy.

I was told that the DR engine is a separate engine from the EXR Processor. They work both together and independently. I don't believe that because we don't have control over either. We just have choices.
If I'm in Manual Mode and Auto ISO...I can't get rid of DR choice in either L or M file size.

Even in Raw only, the DR function is on!

I never would use the EXR modes, well I guess the camera decides that but I don't by choice. I see no way to disconnect DR at all and sometimes this hurts my images by getting highlights back in the Dynamic Range when I want them out.

I've worked with many cameras but this is the first time I am working with one that has a very strong opinion. I guess that's the deciding factor with the X10. If you can openly communicate with a camera that has an opinion about what's going to happen with your photography, the X10 is ideal but if that is an issue...it would be time to move on.

I've always been told that ya can't teach an old dog new tricks....
Rubbish!

IIRC (and that's an open question!) the camera has two ways of dealing with DR. One way is done in full resolution and is essentially the same way the X100 and X-Pro do it, by doing a push pull routine with the ISO and exposure, and you need to be at ISO 400 for a DR of 200% and ISO 800 for a DR of 400%. The other way, which kicks in in medium resolution, uses the EXR pixel binning, is more effective, and doesn't require any particular ISO setting to achieve. The camera also allows you to use a combination of both methods, which is how it will go to DR 800 and 1600%, but I never messed with those. So, bottom line when you're in medium resolution and have the camera set to auto-DR, its using pixel binning tricks to get you up to 400% independent of ISO. When you're in full resolution, it will go up to 400% IF you have the ISO set to let it get there (whether the ISO is set manually or automatically).

Rico (Flysurfer) is the technical expert on the Fuji cameras - he just wrote a book about the X-Pro - but this is the way I recall his explanations and the way I used the camera when I had it. Based on this understanding, when the camera is set to medium resolution, its using the EXR technology almost no matter what else you have it set for. In auto modes or PASM modes. None of this is documented worth a damn in the manual, btw, but its what I've come to understand...

As always, I could be very very totally wrong and will be more than happy to be told how. But I think I'm right.

BTW, Don, you shooting at the parade tomorrow? I'm not sure if I'm coming in or not, but if I do and you're gonna be there, I'll give you a call - maybe lunch at Reading Terminal???

-Ray

Ray.... I've surrendered to the Camera but not without compromise. I'm getting my stuff and am very happy with the results. If the camera is playing tricks....at this point I don't care.
Roger told me to keep it and the Leica's so I'm doing that. I'm using it and it's a fine camera for what I do.

I'll be at the Parade tomorrow. Lunch sounds good.... I'm buying!

Ray:

If you set the DR manually to 100%, isn't that the same as choosing "normal" gradation on other cameras? If I'm shooting aperture priority at iso 100, I keep DR at 100%, since raising it would require raising the iso too. If I want to take advantage of in camera software DR extension in bright light I'll go iso200 and DR200. I haven't yet needed DR400 to save information. If I did, though, I take it you would suggest (in aperture priority) going to M size to take advantage of the hardware magic in the X10.

I'm still figuring it out, and instinctively want to set LF for every shot. But indoor, low light, shooting stationary objects, the Pro low light mode is surprisingly good. Though it allows you no control over anything else, I figure choosing it in situations where it would yield the best results (IMO) is part of the overall control I have with this camera, and I know it is usually going to set iso 3200, f2.8 and a faster shutter speed than I could take the picture at manually, then take four exposures to make one image.

For me it is still the best stick-in-your-(large) pocket, take-anywhere camera I've used. I haven't picked up the XZ-1 since it arrived. It won't replace my E-M5, but I like having a camera on me all the time, and sometimes the E-M5 is more than I want to take.

Don and Ray: Enjoy your parade! And post some shots form it.

Originally Posted by Lawrence A.

Ray:

If I'm shooting aperture priority at iso 100, I keep DR at 100%, since raising it would require raising the iso too. If I want to take advantage of in camera software DR extension in bright light I'll go iso200 and DR200. I haven't yet needed DR400 to save information. If I did, though, I take it you would suggest (in aperture priority) going to M size to take advantage of the hardware magic in the X10.

If you're shooting in full resolution (no EXR), then raising the DR requires raising the ISO too. If you're shooting in medium resolution, the EXR processing kicks in and you can shoot at DR 200% or 400% without raising the ISO. Or 800% and 1600% by raising the ISO, but I'm not sure these extended DR settings are possible in PASM modes - you may have to be in some sort of auto mode to get at those.

And yeah, I did find I got the best image quality in all regards other than resolution by shooting PASM modes in medium resolution, so the pixel binning could do its magic. From what I've read, the sensor and processing design is such that even at full res you don't get twice the resolution of the 6mp you get when using medium resolution, but it is more. As I noted above, I tended to use full resolution for street shooting because I was less concerned with the ultimate in IQ and more concerned with having the ability to crop. For everything else, I pretty much shot in medium resolution with auto-DR and mostly auto-ISO, but I'd sometimes take control of the ISO. I retained control of the key exposure variables, but left the best combination of ISO and DR to the camera and was pretty much always pleased with the results.

Originally Posted by Lawrence A.

I'm still figuring it out, and instinctively want to set LF for every shot. But indoor, low light, shooting stationary objects, the Pro low light mode is surprisingly good. Though it allows you no control over anything else, I figure choosing it in situations where it would yield the best results (IMO) is part of the overall control I have with this camera, and I know it is usually going to set iso 3200, f2.8 and a faster shutter speed than I could take the picture at manually, then take four exposures to make one image.

I remember playing around with the Pro low light mode when I had the camera but didn't find it better enough than just using the EXR in low light, so I never went back to it. It does a pretty good job in low light in EXR mode without multiple exposures, so I just went with that, usually with a max ISO of about 2000 to 2500, occasionally pushing it up to 3200...

-Ray

Lawrence, could you please post the jpeg from the shoot?
Thanks....