Thread: Finally no big brother to my X10. Here's why...

Originally Posted by nianys

Hey, I had the NEX 6 and the Panny G3. Both pretty excellent cameras. I bought the X10 last week on Dixeyk's recommendation (he's the little red devil standing on my shoulder and making me buy camera stuff) and I love it. The AF is pretty acceptable, too. Let's say it's the slowest AF I can be decently happy with.

@Kevin : now that you give me the detail yes I remember upgrading my 7 to that version... but after trying the X100 for a day I'm all ready to love NEX af, I swear ;-) !

I think the X10 (for me) coexists well with the NEX because they fill really different niches. The X10 gives me a freedom and flexibility that the NEX doesn't because I'm all manual focus. I think they are complimentary systems for me. You'll notice I am not saying I told you so. BUT...I was wondering if the Fuji AF would make you happy. Maybe the X100s fixes the shortcomings of the X100 for you. I don't know much about it other than reading that it is supposed to be fast.

Now, I am curious when and If a NEX 8 appears if that will address some of these issues as well. I mean the Sony a57 supposedly has very fast AF so clearly Sony CAN make a fast AF camera. Would a NEX 8 that has AF like their Alpha bodies interest you? Then there is the rumored FF NEX.

My nickname isn't Kevistopheles for nothing.

>> I wonder if you'd miss the NEX IQ and manual focus ability of the NEX with the G3? <<

I have a theory that IQ doesn't matter much. No sharpness, DR or whatever will help my bland image. On the other hand, if I get the subject, moment, light and composition right, IQ is the last thing to worry about again:-)

The only problem that stands between this theory and, say, Samsung EX1 or Oly XZ1, is the fact that I love shallow DOF:-)

I'm looking for a camera that I'll like using. I loved the handling of my Canon Pro1 and I continued to use it even after getting Nikon D70. I'm shooting with Nex3, and it works, but I don't really like the handling. That is (partly) the reason for lusting after another model (the other part being hanging on forums like this).

It's always "el cheapo" model I'm after because, in line with my theory outlined above, investing much in cameras has nothing to do with my IQ.

Originally Posted by pictogramax

>> I wonder if you'd miss the NEX IQ and manual focus ability of the NEX with the G3? <<

I have a theory that IQ doesn't matter much. No sharpness, DR or whatever will help my bland image. On the other hand, if I get the subject, moment, light and composition right, IQ is the last thing to worry about again:-)

The only problem that stands between this theory and, say, Samsung EX1 or Oly XZ1, is the fact that I love shallow DOF:-)

I'm looking for a camera that I'll like using. I loved the handling of my Canon Pro1 and I continued to use it even after getting Nikon D70. I'm shooting with Nex3, and it works, but I don't really like the handling. That is (partly) the reason for lusting after another model (the other part being hanging on forums like this).

It's always "el cheapo" model I'm after because, in line with my theory outlined above, investing much in cameras has nothing to do with my IQ.

Well I agree with you that IQ is really not nearly as important as the skills of the photographer. That said, I can definitely see a difference between the images from a NEX and an m43 camera whether that's important is up to the individual. Everyone has THE thing that defines what makes the perfect camera whether it's shallow DOF, ability to adapt legacy glass, focus peaking, JPEG color or what-have-you. All cameras are compromises you just gotta find the one with the set you mind least. I'm of two minds. Part of me loves small and functional better point and shoot like the X10, LX5. XZ1 etc. They can do a lot of things well and allow me a certain level of spontaneity and freedom that I can't find in larger more "professional" gear. The other part of me loves the spartan, manual focus "pretend I'm shooting my old Konica T2" approach and the NEX and my Rokkors fill the bill there.

Hey All,

...investing much in cameras has nothing to do with my IQ.

Pun???

I followed Nianys other thread and now this one with interest as I too am looking at an x-e1.

However I am going to buy it. Why? Well...

I don't fully understand this fixation with bodies. My view is that when you start investing in a camera the bulk of your money is going to be on everything else other than the body - particularly lenses. The important thing to me is to find a camera body that is a "natural" fit for how I like to photograph. When the xpro-1 came out I loved it - it felt perfect - but wasn't sure how serious about sticking with that kind of camera body and camera functionality Fuji was and it was EXPENSIVE. Then came the X cameras 100 and 10. But I really want interchangeable lenses. Then came the x-e1. Wow Fuji staying with a camera body concept and then developing a lens roadmap for that camera that I really like the looks of. And now the announced capability of the next generation X cameras with fast AF and split image focusing and focus peaking IIRC. The image quality is already astounding - even at 100% the images are incredible. And obviously for the images to be that good the lenses are too! Also I prefer APS-C as I am not convinced M4/3rds will get to the resolution level I want.

OK so the x-e1 body is not perfect. Some focus problems, lack of the new x camera features, for me not as much bracketing ability as I would like, not weather sealed, no 5 axis stabilization, the sensor needs another 5 or so megapixels, etc. But is it worthless and are all these issues likely to be fixed? I suspect all of these will be addressed to one degree or another.

So why on earth would I go invest in new camera and lenses of another brand that I will ultimately sell at something of a loss when I have identified a manufacturer (Fuji) with a long history that is making the kind of camera I want, is already serious about improving it and is (apparently) committed to the continued development of the camera I want. Isn't that good enough to invest? For me it is - at worst I'll start on lenses I want and when the x-e2 comes out will no doubt buy it - body only or with a lens I want if offered - and use my x-e1 as backup or sell body to help finance. Why jump around and likely lose money if you've already in your mind and heart? found a camera you like from a manufacturer that is very apparently not going to leave you high and dry and will continue developing the product you like?

Just my opinion.

Now what might change my mind? A full frame x-ex of course. But maybe Fuji would be kind enough to do what Nikon has done - you can use full Nikon frame lenses on their APS-C bodies. Best of both worlds I think. One lens line for two sensor sizes allowing you lots of flexibility and the extra "reach".

-Ed-

Yes we're all different and that's what makes it so important.
Regarding the camera vs. IQ issue it's not so much a matter of image "quality" per se, as image characteristics. m4/3 has different DOF properties than APS-C (wow, can I get more politically correct that that ?!?) that are problematic for what I love to do. OTOH I've re discovered APS-C (from FF) and am now perfectly happy with it !! Sure FF is super cool (shot it for years) but I could see my whole photographic future in APS-C and be blissful. Not so with m4/3, as much as a GX-1 + lenses I love (the Panaleicas) solution would make my ilfe much, MUCH easier.
I agree that the NEX 7 was pretty much as close as it comes to the ideal mirrorless for me right now. I'll start looking for a new unit when I come back from vacation next week...

>> Pun??? <<

Ed, yup, pun was intentional, as was the deliberate use of "my" IQ

Dixey, I hear you, and share the same split-personality. On one hand I'm completely fine with my lowly cell phone images (see bellow), on the other I'm worried about "downgrading" to M43 from APSC:-)

Nyanis put it right; it's the image "characteristics" I'm considering, not the ultimate "IQ".

PARKED by Milan Jovanovic /pictogramax, on Flickr


2012 02 10 - 161051 by Milan Jovanovic /pictogramax, on Flickr



VEIL by Milan Jovanovic /pictogramax, on Flickr

Milan I'm happy (if not a bit baffled... and humbled) to say that those are the first non totally shitty pictures I see coming out of a phone.
Hmm, very awkward was to say they are pretty awesome indeed !

Originally Posted by nianys

unless I start looking at Samsung, since I'd rather really stay with APS-C...

Do the new Samsungs have exposure preview? The NX100 I had a while ago didn't have it. Always boosted the LCD-preview to a certain level. Drove me nuts :)
(Love the exposure preview and shadows/highlights blinkies on the E-M5... extremely useful in my opinion...)

Originally Posted by Tilman Paulin

Do the new Samsungs have exposure preview? The NX100 I had a while ago didn't have it. Always boosted the LCD-preview to a certain level. Drove me nuts :)
(Love the exposure preview and shadows/highlights blinkies on the E-M5... extremely useful in my opinion...)

Very useful to know ! I'm not *really* considering Samsung seriously at this point. I guess I'll fall back on NEX for a while and use my loaner GX-1 along with it, best of both worlds (can I just have them in the same camera please, lol). I'll give the SEL 35/1.8 a try, after all after the X100 erratic behavior it may seem very fast and reliable. And I will try to get to play with the X-E1 in the flesh also, which is really the best and only way to get an accurate impression of how a camera work, or doesn't, for me.

If shallower depth-of-field is the issue, the 35/1.8 on the Sony is only going to be the tiniest bit better in that regard than the PL 25/1.4.