Micro 4/3 Am I alone? Struggles with new Oly sensor

Luckypenguin · Mar 30, 2013

pdh said:
Don't forget also the Camera Calibration panel. It may offer a more repeatable way of manipulating out colour cast problems.
In essence its a bit of the adobe raw converter made accessible in lr

In this case any colour cast issues are not occurring unless there is a strong, direct light source within the frame, and even then it is hardly repeatable. I had to scour through well over a thousand images to find these examples.

pdh · Mar 30, 2013

Nic I'm not involved in discussing whether there is or is not a colour cast issue, as I don't have any of the cameras in question and am therefore not in a position to comment.

I'm just reminding people of another option for managing colour in LR

Luckypenguin · Mar 30, 2013

Yep, that's cool. I should remember that wt21 probably didn't start this thread looking for a reason to not change cameras

wt21 · Mar 30, 2013

lol nic. too true. I tried an X100 today. I think I'll keep struggling with my color workflow on my m43. I am certain part of the issue is my limited knowledge of color and color theory. I've only just started learning this whole side of shooting. Maybe that's why I'm finding flaws now. I didn't know better before

flash · Mar 30, 2013

I do think there's a magenta coating on the sensor filter in the new Olys. It would explain the weird flare with the 7-14 as well. I use the Huelight profiles with a -5 shadow adjustment in the calkibration tab and +10 blue in the colour hue tab as a default. I'm pretty happy with that.

Gordon

zensu · Apr 19, 2013

I agree with John.

entropic remnants said:
I have and E-M5 and E-PL5 and I can't say as I've had any problems compared to my several generations of Nikon sensors in DSLR's or other micro four thirds cameras. I might be unconsciously processing it out since I'm usually just trying to get "my look" in a shot. But I can't say I've seen anything out of the ordinary with the cameras that I got. Maybe it's sample variation?

How can you oversaturate colors though in a RAW file? That would be a software processing issue to my way of thinking. The RAW image is just RGB data and I don't see how you could have that without affecting overall exposure as well.

I am by no means even near a professional but I've gone from an Olympus E-PL2 to an E-PL5 and after several generations of Nikon sensor DSLR's don't suffer from any of the color problems you guys are dealing with. The only purple I see is when shooting the 9-18 at it's widest settings from CA which is relatively easy to correct.

Armanius · Apr 19, 2013

Nic's photos look pretty good to me. I guess the magenta cast never bothered me given that I never really noticed it, until now!

Gubrz · Apr 20, 2013

i dont recall my em5 giving me magenta colors... but mebbe im blinded by the yellow tinged photos i get from my rx1... i am constantly checking to make sure im not in TOY LENS FILTER mode, lol

i actually like it, but it weirds me out... lol

Steve Noel · Apr 20, 2013

Reading forums, is very dangerous. I must suddenly, start looking to see if I have a serious problem, that I was never aware existed! But now, what if my camera has a serious color defect that will shame me in front of my family and friends? :redface:

Oh well. Not the first time. Don't think I will even bother. What I don't know, won't trouble my poor photographic mentality.
Back to as I were.

entropic remnants · Apr 20, 2013

I think one must be careful when examining any optical system not to be fooled by the slight color reflections from the coatings, whether those coatings are on lenses, filters, or on the top of the sensor.

I think this "magenta" filter observation probably comes from somebody looking at the filter and seeing a magenta colored reflection off the top. Interestingly, such reflections CAN contribute to flare problems -- but they wouldn't tend to tint the overall image.

In fact, when you think about it, a glass surface that reflects a certain color represents a system where a little less of that color actually makes it to the sensor. Hence, a surface which reflected any major amount of magenta light would actually cause the recorded image to be LESS magenta tinted.

I simply don't see any problems with my E-M5.

Amin · Apr 20, 2013

I've only seen color issues with flare, and even those I only notice when people point it out in threads. My E-M5 and E-PM2 have been my most used cameras since they arrived, and I'm totally happy with the color I'm getting from them.

Stan · Apr 21, 2013

Not that I don't think this is a problem for you, but I haven't had issues with the EPM2, RAW, and LR4. My lenses are the 14/2.5, 17/1.8, 25/1.4, 45/1.8.

Lawrence A. · Apr 22, 2013

I've always been pretty sensitive to magenta in color photos, and I haven't had a problem getting what I want from the E-M5. I have put in corrections to my liking, taking out 2 points of amber and adding 1 point of green to the daylight setting, which did render much warmer than I like.

entropic remnants · Apr 22, 2013

I will have an upcoming post about the purple blob problems with the 7-14mm on the E-M5. I had the E-M5 and the G5 with me tonight and took the same scene with each of them and the E-M5 is terrible.

It is all down to internal reflection of the sensor. It's apparent the Sony sensor bounces back quite a bit more light and it's purple, lol. It's not a CA/LCA problem at all. The Panasonic appears to do it less because the coating on the sensor (or microlenses, UV/IR filters, whatever) are much less reflective.

I'd say at least part of the problem is the 7-14mm lens design and either the curve of the optics and/or the coatings.

Like I say, pics coming. I can see though how perhaps certain lenses in certain lighting could result in the purple showing up in larger areas and casting the color. But it would be a cosmic convergence of lens geometry and reflectiveness of the sensor which creates the perfect storm with the Panasonic 7-14mm I do believe.

Archiver · Apr 22, 2013

Ahhhh, so that is what I'm seeing in the EM-5 videos! I get a fair bit of strange purple lens flare, particularly in the Oly 45 and 75 lenses.

entropic remnants · Apr 22, 2013

Yes I have too, but it's not been a serious issue and some lenses do it more than others. For me it mainly means I will be using the G5 with the 7-14mm more than the E-M5 in difficult light like my urbex runs and what not.

I'm working tonight (I love these days I come in for graveyard shift for ONE day and go back to days -- messes with my body clock, lol) and after I wake up tomorrow (uhhh...I mean later today) I'll put up the pictures I took. I discounted a lot of this discussion before I did these tests because truly I've never seen an overall magenta or purple cast. But I think I can see how it could happen.

I'd be particularly worried if I used any legacy glass that was the least bit hazy inside. That could pick up that purple reflection and cause a real issue with a cast.

entropic remnants · Apr 22, 2013

Okay, I've had a whopping 4.5 hours of sleep so I'm ready to go! (blah)

Here are the comparison shots I did last night. A few observations:

I made these shots from more or less the same spot, at more or less the same angle but they aren't exact as I was working hand held and took the images at different times. I more or less matched the image color and so forth but I did minimal processing.
I did this in several places in the mill and got the same result every time.
The problem will only occur with bright light sources quite a few stops above the average scene level -- like the sun or in this case the very bright overhead lights. Although bright, the space is big and the overall scene light level is low. Perfect to reproduce this.
You can readily see that the reflections are of the light pattern on the roof. There are multiple ones from different distances or the "ping ponging" of the light in the lens that results in different blobs but in the same patterns.
Clearly, these are typical sensor/lens reflections. The 7-14mm has no filter on it so we can't blame that.
Not only are the G5's reflections neutral in color, they are also much dimmer indicating a lesser reflection.
The E-M5's sensor somehow reflects a narrower color band, but reflects a LOT of it.
The 7-14mm optics sit closer to the sensor than any other lens I own. I wish I'd checked the Olympus 9-18mm before I sold it. I had this problem for sure with it, but less than I do with the 7-14mmm.

So, I'll repeat that I think this problem is the "perfect storm" of lens and sensor design interacting poorly.

Here's the images, first the full size and the image with the E-M5 is first, the G5 second and the difference is quite dramatic.