1. Reminder: Please use our affiliate links for holiday shopping!

Damn You, Sigma DP2m

Discussion in 'Sigma DP Forum' started by john m flores, Nov 30, 2013.

  1. john m flores

    john m flores SC All-Pro

    Aug 13, 2012
    • Like Like x 3
  2. Luke

    Luke Super Moderator

    Nov 11, 2011
    Milwaukee, WI USA
    Luke
    For awhile, owning the DP2M ruined my experience using any of my other cameras. I finally solved the problem. I sold the Sigma DP2M. Problem solved.....suddenly my other cameras were no longer a total embarrassment.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  3. BruPri

    BruPri SC Top Veteran

    699
    May 11, 2011
    Seattle, Washington USA
    Bruce J. Pritchard
    Thanks for the read John, I went from an M9 to a DP-3 and a Nikon 1 V1, two cameras that in many ways are polar opposite in functionality and purpose. I've not enjoyed a combination more though.
     
  4. Yeats

    Yeats SC All-Pro

    Jul 31, 2012
    New Jersey, USA
    Chris
    I hope you don't mind, John... and if you do, please let me know and I'll delete it.

    A tad of PP on the K-3 side.
    [​IMG]
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. john m flores

    john m flores SC All-Pro

    Aug 13, 2012
    That's quite alright, Chris. I actually should have embedded shots here but rushed. So thanks for adding.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. Yeats

    Yeats SC All-Pro

    Jul 31, 2012
    New Jersey, USA
    Chris
    I've read in a couple of places that the Sigma's resolution would be more like a 24MP APS-C DSLR... but I'm getting the idea that this generation's 24MP sensors are not much of an advantage over the Sony 16MP units.
     
  7. retow

    retow SC All-Pro

    Jul 24, 2010
    I told you so. The experience of seeing the Merrill files on the screen and on print dampens any enthusiasm for anything with Bayer inside.
     
  8. Luckypenguin

    Luckypenguin SC Hall of Famer

    Dec 24, 2010
    Brisbane, Australia
    Nic
    I'm not sure that I understand the methodology of comparing the Sigma tiffs with unprocessed dng files from the Pentax. Now to be true there is some esoteric value in looking at how well the files come straight off the sensor, but because the Sigma files are first being passed through their own proprietary software we have no way of knowing how unprocessed the files are even if the user is not adjusting anything in SPP. The only really meaningful IQ comparison that can be made nowadays between cameras is to compare the final, processed images.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  9. Yeats

    Yeats SC All-Pro

    Jul 31, 2012
    New Jersey, USA
    Chris
    You're right, Nic. I attempted to demonstrate that point with the pic I posted above, where I pp'd the K-3 file to mimic the Sigma. Not perfect, but pretty close, I think.
     
  10. john m flores

    john m flores SC All-Pro

    Aug 13, 2012
    I guess the point is to understand the level where one might start the post-processing process. Like Chris, I've been able to push the K-3's pixels a bit so that they start to approximate the Sigma's, And like Chris, it gets pretty close and for all practical purposes, close enough. What the Sigma showed me (particularly vs. the 16 MP Pentax K-01) is that there is a level of acuity and sharpness where a photograph starts to look like a completely different photograph. The Sigma does that consistently, and I'm comforted that the K-3 can be coaxed there as well.

    At the end of the day though, it is the results that count, and I daresay that there may be situations where the Sigma may get results fundamentally different than other cameras.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. Luckypenguin

    Luckypenguin SC Hall of Famer

    Dec 24, 2010
    Brisbane, Australia
    Nic
    Cool, I assumed that that is what you had done. Now it's possible that the Sigma could be sharpened further too, but sharpening is not something where more is always better so there will be a ceiling for each.
     
  12. john m flores

    john m flores SC All-Pro

    Aug 13, 2012
    I used to think similarly, but now I'm not so sure. I do agree that sharpening in post has its limits; you've got to stop before you start getting some odd side effects. But the shots from the Sigma just feel different than anything else that I've see, and I think that it has to,do with the acuity.

    At the end of the day though, it does depend on what you are trying to achieve, to communicate. And there are things that may be communicated without hyper sharpness.
     
  13. serhan

    serhan SC All-Pro

    May 7, 2011
    NYC
    Usually 2x or so, esp for the photos that John took... Vieri who is a landscape photographer posted his comparison of Sigma and 24MP nex-7 here and had a similar conclusion. So he sold his nex-7 first, then dp's to buy SD1 for his landscapes instead of D800E... His conclusion was "While the D800E has evidently more resolution, you can see how the SD1 Merrill holds its own very well; its files show actually more micro-contrast and fine detail than the D800E's files. Indeed the rendering of homogenous colored areas looks more detailed, more tridimensional in the SD1 Merrill." Usually Zeiss lenses have a similar 3D contrasty look. Vieri was saying the dynamic range and noise is more limited w/ SD1 so he has to shot it right compared to D800E. His comparisons:
    http://madshutter.blogspot.com/2013/06/the-saga-begins-sigma-sd1-merrill-vs.html
    http://madshutter.blogspot.com/2013/09/d800e-vs-sd1-merrill-part-ii-wide-angle.html
    Samples: http://www.getdpi.com/forum/other-cameras/48094-wondrous-isle-skye-scotland.html
    http://www.getdpi.com/forum/other-cameras/47854-amazing-landscapes-island-arran.html
    http://www.getdpi.com/forum/other-cameras/46507-sigma-sd1-merrill-first-photographs-review.html

    Here is also a comparison of dp2M vs A7R:
    http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/52452769

     
  14. Lawrence A.

    Lawrence A. SC All-Pro

    Nov 8, 2012
    New Mexico
    Larry
    My DP2s, before I moved on to the Merrill version, at 100% was a tad sharper than my E=M5 at 50%, but roughly comparable. That's 4.9 x 3 MP vs. 16 MP.

    That doesn't mean I'm about to ditch my E-M5. But having one spatial pixel (x 3 colors) does certainly have a resolution advantage over 4 pixels representing one unit of spatial resoution (2 green, 1 blue, and 1 red) through interpellation. Champions of the bayer sensor against the foveon (I'm not sure why there has to be a war!) argue with the way Sigma counts pixels (46 for the Merril), but the 15 megapixels in a Bayer sensor are not all devoted to resolution either, showing once again that counting MP is a side show. The MFT charts on the DP2 Merrill is better than almost anything out there, across the frame, but again, for photographers numbers become more an interesting way of rationalizing what you see than anything useful in themselves. I would not buy a camera based solely on its specs; I want to see images from it, and preferably be able to download some raw files.

    In the end it's the image, as it a has always been, and the DPs can give you quite special results. I'll leave it to the engineers to figure out how to make that happen; I'm a mathematically incompetent student of Anglo-Saxon, English poetry, and music, so I'll never do more than pick up the lingo, only partially understanding it. But I like to think I can make the camera I have work to my advantage. And when the language moves from pixels, signal to noise ratios and all that jazz, to tonal values and scale, color, "drawing", etc. I'm on terra firma.