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DP2 Merrill first images

Discussion in 'Sigma DP Forum' started by Chrisnmn, Aug 6, 2012.

  1. Chrisnmn

    Chrisnmn SC Veteran

    405
    Jul 8, 2012
    Auckland, New Zealand
    Chris Leskovsek
    Hey guys, im new here in the SC forum, but ive been reading it for quite some time now, since im looking for that compact camera for me. Im quite interested in the new DP Merrills one and just found this images on DP Review

    Sigma DP2 Merrill: Open Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

    they look quite amazing...anyone knows were to get a proper review of the camera or is it not out yet?. there not much information around this Sigmas right?.
     
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  2. serhan

    serhan SC All-Pro

    May 7, 2011
    NYC
    Welcome to SC. It looks like the camera is out, so reviews should follow. However Sigmas are niche cameras eg dpreview even doesn't review them, but you can find useful information from the users. I found couple Japanese reviews:

    Google Translate

    Google Translate

    and a user review:
    The DP2M: a tool with a clearly defined purpose...: Sigma SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

    If you are interested about the lens quality, it has been available for nex/m43 cameras and reviewed:
    Sigma 30 mm f/2.8 EX DN review - Summary - Lenstip.com
     
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  3. krugorg

    krugorg SC All-Pro

    Sep 26, 2011
    Minnesota USA
    Kyle Krug
    Good to see you here on SC!

    I love the idea of the Sigma sensor, especially for my daylight landscape stuff.

    Whenever I start researching, though, it sounds like image processing is a pain?
     
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  4. Chrisnmn

    Chrisnmn SC Veteran

    405
    Jul 8, 2012
    Auckland, New Zealand
    Chris Leskovsek
    thanks for the welcoming guys! appreciate it!. It seems that i started looking for a compact camera to go with my FF gear...long story short ended up buying a whole m43 system which is definitely half size. half weight and carry with me always...BUT i think im still thrilled by the idea of getting a nice compact such as the Ricoh GRD series or this Sigmas DP merrills.

    and yes, ive been reading on the links that @Serhan suggested and it seems they are quite slow AF/ painful raw image processing ? but they do produce some outstanding images.
     
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  5. serhan

    serhan SC All-Pro

    May 7, 2011
    NYC
    Yes, it sounds like Sigma:) I started with DP1/2 esp for travels so I didn't carry my dslrs and then bought into m43, since they didn't cover everything. DP1 was the only big sensor compact when it was released in 2008. DP2 was released same time as Olympus E-P1 in 2009 summer. Sigmas shine at low ISO, so they make it very good landscape/architectural cameras. The colors are film like and the dynamic range allows to have a good range without too much noise in shadows. I haven't checked the new SD1 sensor and the new cameras as we have more (faster!) options now. I have seen couple discussions that SD1 sensor needs the best lenses to shine... The file sizes grew also so the processing times both in the camera and the computers. I used Sigma software only, it was the best option to get the Sigma colors and dynamic range. Usually key is the WB. So jpegs was not an option...

    It looks like DP2m has the same red grid problem that DP1 has. That was the reason DP1s was released to fix that. If you shot a sunset/sunrise with the sun, it was over there... They should have checked that with the DP2M before they released it... With DP1, there was no recall to fix it like Fuji fixing their cameras.
     
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  6. Prototype

    Prototype SC Veteran

    207
    Jul 9, 2010
    Illinois
    Brian
    I'm very interested in this camera, especially since the lens no longer retracts - I'd hate to go through the lens failure issue again. It's a shame that it's larger than the original DP cameras and the lens on the DP2M didn't gain a stop (the Merrill generation DP1 gained a stop), but this is the most desirable camera for me at the moment.
     
  7. retow

    retow SC All-Pro

    Jul 24, 2010
    Oh boy, I don't need another camera, but this one is a "must buy". Nothing compares to the Foveon sensor output in good light.
     
  8. chelimbonod

    chelimbonod SC Rookie

    14
    Jul 22, 2012
    I've already started saving for it. There are plenty of reports of quirks like lens flare and sensor noise, but I don't care. The image quality is still by far the best you can get for the $999 price tag. And, you can get it in any color you want, as long as you want black :)
     
  9. pdh

    pdh SC Legend

    Jan 2, 2011
    Kyle I imagine a DP with 28mm-equiv lens would do you very nicely.

    As for processing, the main issue seems to have been that using anything other than Sigma's own SPP software left something of the Foveon "punch" behind. I've seen this myself with my DP2s and Lightroom 3.x.

    The trouble is that some people (I'm one) find SPP not only slow but with a horrid user-interface that makes it difficult to use. Plus the well known inconsistency of the Foveon output depending on light conditions can make post-processing a frustrating experience.

    Sigma have updated SPP for the Merrill edition sensors but they haven't changed the user interface except marginally.

    The good news (from my point of view anyway) is that LR4.1 is nearly as good now with the DP2s raws as SPP. However there may be a lag before the Merrills are supported in LR (I'm not a press-release or blog reader so it might already be there, of course)

    hope this helps. it's all from personal experience.
     
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  10. Tilman Paulin

    Tilman Paulin SC Top Veteran

    681
    Nov 15, 2011
    Dublin, Ireland
    I've been using Lightroom for my DP1s and DP2 for quite a while now. Am quite happy with it.

    For me the slight trade-off in "punch" (that sometimes happens) is worth having all the tools in one software (removing colour casts, straightening, ...). Plus the much greater control of Lightroom makes it easy to bring some punch back. :)

    Some people do their initial raw-conversion in SPP and bring the 16-bit tiff into Lightroom for further editing. Which gets them the best of both worlds.

    (For me that was always a step too much work. I need to spend less time in front of a computer. Having trouble with RSI for a while now. I'm not blaming that on the Sigmas :) But they're not helping... So I'm looking for a camera with less need of post-processing lately. - But it's hard to let go of the Sigmas... They have their own unique look... )

    cheers,
    Tilman
     
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  11. pdh

    pdh SC Legend

    Jan 2, 2011
    Yes I've done the tiff thing too and it does work well but as you say more time and faff.
    It is rather a shortcoming of spp that it's got no crop or alignment tools.
    With lr4.1 I find almost no need to use spp now.
    The only exception is that I think (it's purely personal) when I want a monochrome it has a nicer look converted in spp and then imported into lr as a tiff. But I bet there's no technical reason how this could be so and it's just a fixed but groundless belief on my part!
     
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  12. krugorg

    krugorg SC All-Pro

    Sep 26, 2011
    Minnesota USA
    Kyle Krug
    I appreciate the input! Yeah, I must have researched some old threads, as I remember reading that it had to be SPP (which was brutally painful).

    I have been saving my pennies for a full frame, mostly for landscapes and some family portrait stuff. I wasn't super excited, to say the least, about going DSLR, so I am excited to learn more about the DP Merrills. It would be nearly perfect for my uses, very complimentary to my m4/3 setup, and I would be a good deal more likely to take both for travel (betting the FF would have stayed at home).
     
  13. Prototype

    Prototype SC Veteran

    207
    Jul 9, 2010
    Illinois
    Brian
    This is alarming:
    That is a quote from a user posting in DPReview regarding her new DP Merrill.

    Edit: She later clarifies that, in addition to the 51 images produced, there was also battery drain due to setting up the camera and checking photos. However, it's still alarming when a manufacturer decides that it needs to include two batteries in the box.
     
  14. snkenai

    snkenai SC All-Pro

    Oct 5, 2010
    kenai, AK
    Stephen Noel
    I think it is just good business to include 2 batteries with every new camera. Setting up camera can "eat" a lot of battery. And the first charge, doesn't always last a long time. So my first emotion is not alarm, just life. Small camera, bright LCD, small battery, new toy: = short life. :smile:
     
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  15. chelimbonod

    chelimbonod SC Rookie

    14
    Jul 22, 2012
    Love is blind :)
     
  16. Prototype

    Prototype SC Veteran

    207
    Jul 9, 2010
    Illinois
    Brian
    I've been keeping up with discussions about this camera on several forums, with the most heated being at DPReview. Someone there very generously posted a gallery 96 photos, RAW files included! It was nice to be able to download a RAW file and play with it using Sigma Photo Pro (available for free on Sigma's website - only works with X3F files).

    The ISO800 RAW I downloaded still had quite a bit of noise, but less than an ISO800 file of my DP1. There was some ugly banding, however, which is absent on the DP1. According to several DP and SD owners, the banding did not appear until Sigma introduced the Analog Front End feature on their newer cameras (SD15, DP1X, DP2X, SD1, and the Merrill generation DP). If you'd like to see the banding, enlarge the image on this blog post: foxfoto.exblog.jp You will be able to see the vertical and horizontal lines in the sky. I don't mind the noise, but the banding is quite ugly.

    Despite everything I've read about the poor battery life and poor image quality in some scenarios, I'm still lusting after this camera.
     
  17. Chris2500dk

    Chris2500dk SC Top Veteran

    598
    Dec 22, 2011
    Copenhagen, Denmark
    The high ISO banding is the main factor my DP1x is sitting in a drawer and my DP1 is being used when I feel like playing with a wide angle Foveon camera.
    Not that I want to shoot high ISO often, but sometimes I enjoy a B&W conversion and the banding is very visible even there.
     
  18. Andrewteee

    Andrewteee SC All-Pro

    Jul 8, 2010
    What causes this banding?
     
  19. krugorg

    krugorg SC All-Pro

    Sep 26, 2011
    Minnesota USA
    Kyle Krug
    It sounds like the banding starts to become a problem after ISO 400? I saw a base ISO shot with some (shadows at 100% view), but it looked like the file was flogged a bit in PP.

    I also saw some comments also on sky noise at base ISO. I wonder if this is compared to a FF camera, or if it is similar to something like you would see with the NEX-7 or OM-D?
     
  20. chelimbonod

    chelimbonod SC Rookie

    14
    Jul 22, 2012
    PhotoAcute can fix the noise, the banding, and it can increase the already-stellar resolution. A better camera and lenses will cost you at least $3500. PhotoAcute will cost you about $150.