EXR mode for Dummies!

Discussion in 'Fuji Forum' started by Ghosthunter, Nov 13, 2011.

  1. Ghosthunter

    Ghosthunter boo! Subscribing Member

    Sep 8, 2010
    London UK
    Real Name:
    Andy
    Can someone please explain in simple English how the EXR function works on Fuji cameras (X10)

    I was under the impression that EXR chose the setting it deemed necessary and produced an image at 6 Mpixels. I have just tried EXR and it is still showing at 4000pixels at the longest side and i expected it to be 2000 pixels as I thought the 6mp image would be half the full size.

    Also Can you get EXR modes to work in Aperture priority? If so, how?

    Huge thanks in advance :smile:
     
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  2. flysurfer

    flysurfer SC Top Veteran

    791
    Aug 31, 2011
    Only EXR Auto choses the EXR mode for you, including "high resolution" HR, which is actually no EXR mode (aka EXR OFF). The other real EXR (DR and SN) modes are 6 MP.
     
  3. Ray Sachs

    Ray Sachs SC Legend Subscribing Member

    Sep 21, 2010
    Not too far from Philly
    Real Name:
    you should be able to figure it out...
    Right, and because of that I always choose SN priority or DR priority when I go into EXR mode, which I only do for challenging light (basically either low light or very high contrast scenes). I basically just use the C1 and C2 settings as shortcuts to each of these modes, and I give up control of the other settings when I do. Otherwise, I'm in hi-res and basically using one of the PASM modes and maintain much more control. Someday I may learn the details of shooting EXR in PASM modes and really master the camera, but I find it does very well in normal, high res mode for most of my shooting, so I save the EXR for particularly tough situations. I don't use totally auto EXR because it may choose Hi-Res (ie - NOT EXR) and I don't want the camera taking over control when I'm shooting hi res. so just go to SN or DR priority when you go into EXR mode and you'll avoid that particular confusion, because they both automatically take you down to M res - 6mp.

    There seems to be a fair amount to learn about shooting in EXR with your own settings. I've chosen not to learn it. At least for now, and I can't promise I'll ever take it on if the camera keeps providing good results on the rare occasions I do go into the EXR modes giving it full control.

    -Ray
     
  4. Archiver

    Archiver SC Top Veteran S.C. Charter Member

    610
    Jul 11, 2010
    Melbourne, Australia
    I've come to understand a few funky things about DR mode in the X10.

    You can set PASM modes with Auto DR, which automatically increases DR from 100% to 400% depending on whether the camera deems it necessary. But if you shoot in Large (12mp) jpegs, the camera also sets the ISO to match the DR percentage, even if you are shooting in broad daylight. So if the camera decides to go with 400% DR, then that image will be shot at ISO 400.

    To avoid this, set the jpegs to save at M size, which is effectively 6mp. I believe that this also changes the raw files to 6mp as well.

    N.B.: setting the jpeg save size sets it in all modes except for C1 and C2. This means that if you change the image size for the EXR mode it will change across PAS and M modes as well.

    It also means that you can use C1 and C2 to create totally discreet presets for whatever EXR mode you decide, as long as it is within the parameters of the camera's functions. For example, I have just created a high contrast black and white preset in C1 for street shooting. Large jpegs, raw capture, Auto ISO1600 and Auto DR. I've also bumped up shadow density and upped the highlights, although there does not seem to be a Contrast control in this camera - kind of odd, considering that just about everything else is adjustable.

    Also note that when in EXR mode you cannot save in raw, jpeg only.
     
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  5. nippa

    nippa SC Top Veteran S.C. Charter Member

    561
    Aug 7, 2010
    Cheshire UK
    Real Name:
    Dennis
    Still learning but I thought that I wouldn't like 6mps images.
    Instead EXR auto has produced some cracking images at 6mps .. in lowish light this morning I was getting better quality with the X10 than my G3 thanks to that great lens.

    Not being used to Fuji , it's been quite a struggle to figure out what features are available and when.
    I spent a couple of hours trying to alter the metering mode and move the focus point when the light dawned - I had face detect on and it wouldn't let me do it!
     
  6. BBW

    BBW Administrator Emeritus S.C. Charter Member

    Jul 7, 2010
    betwixt and between
    Real Name:
    BB
    I'm taking the liberty of quoting you, Andy, and flysurfer's, from another X10 thread:

     
  7. flysurfer

    flysurfer SC Top Veteran

    791
    Aug 31, 2011
    I never select an EXR mode, as this would mean I get no RAWs. However, I need the RAWs in order to get good JPEGs out of the camera after taking the shot.

    Of course, you can also use the X10 in DR100, L size, Velvia, ISO 100 – just for the heck of it to maximize color and contrast. Those results can look quite interesting, as well (I have just taken those few shots in our yard to prove the point):

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I'm usually a DR hog, but hey, sometimes limited range and maximum color contrast are nice, too.
     
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  8. BBW

    BBW Administrator Emeritus S.C. Charter Member

    Jul 7, 2010
    betwixt and between
    Real Name:
    BB
    Very nice!
     
  9. Armanius

    Armanius Bring Jack back!

    Jan 11, 2011
    Houston, Texas
    Real Name:
    Jack
    So ... if the X10 is set on EXR (other than EXR High Res, because that means no-EXR), then no RAW at all?

     
  10. Armanius

    Armanius Bring Jack back!

    Jan 11, 2011
    Houston, Texas
    Real Name:
    Jack
    On the X100, if I set the DR on auto or anything more than 100% or on auto, the camera also increases the ISO even when it's not necessary (a.k.a. broad daylight) like you mentioned below.

    Can you explain why the camera does that? I'd always thought that the higher the ISO, the more limited the dynamic range. So in my mind, it doesn't make sense to increase the ISO when we are trying to get more dynamic range by setting the DR at anything above 100% (or on auto).

    :confused:

     
  11. Lili

    Lili SC Hall of Famer

    Oct 17, 2010
    Dallas, TX
    Real Name:
    Lili
    If you shoot full resolution, in jepg or RAW, it uses ISO boost like the old Fuji S100FS to expand DR. If you shoot jpeg and Medium Resolution and choose high DR then it bins the pixels, one half under and the other half over exposing.
    Nothing Special: How to Shoot an EXR Camera -- Fuji X10, F70EXR, F80EXR, F200EXR, F300EXR, F550EXR, F505EXR, F500EXR, F600EXR, F605EXR, HS20, X-S1, S200EXR, Z700EXR, Z800EXR, Z900EXR – *updated 12 November 2011*
     
  12. flysurfer

    flysurfer SC Top Veteran

    791
    Aug 31, 2011
    Of course this is necessary, the dynamic expansion is done by means of underexposing one or two stops, hence ISO 400 or 800 instead of 200 in order to get that. The X100 will still expose like ISO 200 (aka not push the sensor sensitivity), instead it will enhance the tonal curves in the shadows and midtones.

    http://www.dpreview.com/news/2009/3/18/apical

    Of course, EXR DR works in a totally different way. The X10 offers both options. You can even combine them to get up to 1600% extra dynamik range.
     
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  13. Ray Sachs

    Ray Sachs SC Legend Subscribing Member

    Sep 21, 2010
    Not too far from Philly
    Real Name:
    you should be able to figure it out...
    Oh, OK, THAT'S where those options for 800 and 1600 come from. I was wondering about that. Although it appears it only lets you do that if you're in the EXR mode per the mode dial rather than just defaulting to it by setting the resolution to medium. I'm not going to go there based on various recommendations, but its good to understand how they get to it.

    -Ray
     
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  14. Armanius

    Armanius Bring Jack back!

    Jan 11, 2011
    Houston, Texas
    Real Name:
    Jack
    I'm confused. How does underexposing expand the dynamic range?

     
  15. Djarum

    Djarum SC All-Pro S.C. Charter Member Subscribing Member

    Jul 10, 2010
    Huntsville, AL
    Real Name:
    Jason
    According to dpreview, on the f200EXR model, thre are two ways of getting the high dynamic range. The first is the old way, where it underexposes the entire image, is done by underexposing highlight information and boosting shadows(ie more noise in the shadows). The other way is to get a half resolution image by the underexposed highlights from one group of pixels and combine with the image from the properly exposed group of pixels.

    Fujifilm FinePix F200EXR Review: 9. Photographic tests (Dynamic Range): Digital Photography Review
     
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  16. Ghosthunter

    Ghosthunter boo! Subscribing Member

    Sep 8, 2010
    London UK
    Real Name:
    Andy
    Going back to the 6mb image thing..

    I took a test shot on EXR auto and the file size in Mb was the same as any other in aperture priority also the physical size was the same i.e 4000 pixels wide. What should I be looking for for the 6Mp images and which setting takes 3 images and merges them together in EXR?
     
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  17. Ray Sachs

    Ray Sachs SC Legend Subscribing Member

    Sep 21, 2010
    Not too far from Philly
    Real Name:
    you should be able to figure it out...
    At 4000 pixels wide, you're getting the full resolution shots, which means if you're using EXR auto, the camera is choosing EXR-HR, or high-res, which essentially isn't EXR. Its making the judgement that you don't need EXR. When you're in the fully auto EXR mode and you do a half press, the camera will tell you (bottom left corner of the LCD), whether its choosing HR (high res - NOT EXR), SN (Signal to Noise - low light EXR), or DR (dynamic range EXR). So you can see what its choosing for you. Play around with it - just sitting at my desk, I can point the camera into the darker part of the room and it will show SN, I can point out the window to a scene with good light but somewhat in the shade - not super bright - and it'll show HR. And I can point it at the sky, vaguely toward the sun, and it shows DR. And when it shows SN or DR, the resulting shot will only have a width of about 2800 pixels. Sounds like you haven't actually used EXR yet, even though you set it to EXR auto.

    As I've noted, instead of going full-auto on EXR, I choose either DR or SN priority so I know what its going to do. As a shortcut, I just assigned each of these two modes to a custom "C" slot on the mode dial. I don't let it shoot full-res in EXR - when its in full res, I want to control all of the choices and tradeoffs. When I throw it into 6mp EXR mode, THEN I want the camera to take over once I figure whether its gonna need the low noise setting or the high DR setting.

    I hope this helps,

    -Ray
     
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  18. BBW

    BBW Administrator Emeritus S.C. Charter Member

    Jul 7, 2010
    betwixt and between
    Real Name:
    BB
    <iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/M68GeL8PafE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

    This how I feel reading this sometimes - as in "my brain hurts".
     
  19. Ghosthunter

    Ghosthunter boo! Subscribing Member

    Sep 8, 2010
    London UK
    Real Name:
    Andy
    Ray; HUGE thanks!!!!!!!!!! I finally understand EXR Whoooooop! Thank you!! I'll do some testing in the other modes.

    BB: Clasic Monty Python, Very funny and yes my brain hurts too! :biggrin:
     
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