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Finally no big brother to my X10. Here's why...

Discussion in 'Fuji X Forum' started by nianys, Jan 31, 2013.

  1. nianys

    nianys SC Regular

    176
    Sep 10, 2012
    Having bought the X10 last week I'm really liking a lot of things about this camera and was eagerly anticipating getting its "big brother", the X-E1, coupled with 35/1.4 as my main portrait tool. After playing extensively with a friend's X100 today (and harassing said friend with phones calls to make sure the erratic behavior or the camera was "normal", lol) it confirmed what's a total deal breaker for me (that already existed in the X10 but that I had forvigen to the "small camera") : no real time live view exposure feedback !!
    Both the NEX and m4/3 Pannys I've had will let you chose whether you want the LCD/EVF to faithfully reflect your exposure settings, or not. Like in daylight with no flash I chose to, and in dim light using manual flash, I chose to boost the LCD/EVF to keep it bright to concentrate on composition.
    The Fuji's don't do that. They automatically boost or "gain" the LCD/EVF and even if those get a bit brighter/dimmer with exposure setting changes, it does NOT faithfully reflect the final exposure of your picture.
    To me, this "pre-chiming" (as Kirk Tuck calls it) is to me the NUMBER ONE advantage of mirrorless cameras, BY FAR. If you remove that from the equation, there's no compelling reason (for me) to be deprived of fast, continuous AF and all other DSLR goodies. Size/weight reduction is nice, but not closely as crucial as the WYSIWYG approach on the NEX and M4/3.
    Boo ooh ohh, I'm so sad. I so wanted to love and use an X-E1.
    Looks like I'm back between NEX and m4/3, unless I start looking at Samsung, since I'd rather really stay with APS-C...
     
    • Like Like x 2
  2. Luke

    Luke Super Moderator

    Nov 11, 2011
    Milwaukee, WI USA
    Luke
    • Like Like x 1
  3. dixeyk

    dixeyk Guest

    Between NEX and m43...really? Because of AF I assume? If it's of any interest to you the 1.01 firmware update to the 5n made AF on my Sigma 30 quite a bit faster and more reliable. We're not talking GX1 speeds but I'd say X10-ish speeds. M43 definitely has the better native lens selection but I don't think I could make that step. I would definitely see it as a step backward for the kinds of things I like to do.
     
  4. Armanius

    Armanius Bring Jack back!

    Jan 11, 2011
    Houston, Texas
    Jack
    Exposure compensation does affect what you see on the EVF or LCD.

    BUT the EVF/LCD in the Fuji's are definitely not anywhere close to WYSIWYG. This topic has been discussed before (and complained about by yours truly). So I totally agree with Nianys. Although it was not a deal breaker for me.
     
  5. nianys

    nianys SC Regular

    176
    Sep 10, 2012
    Well my problem is... since both GX-1 and NEX bodies get that right (the NEX to perfection) I don't think I want to put up with a body that doest, especially considering "pre chimping" is my N°1 reason to chose mirror less... Bummed :(
     
  6. bobbywise

    bobbywise SC Regular

    43
    Jun 2, 2012
    Nantes, France
    Robert Wisbey
    LOL -- I remember predicting you'd fall for he Fujifilm ergonomics and colors.
    Good thing I'm not a betting man !
     
  7. nianys

    nianys SC Regular

    176
    Sep 10, 2012
    Well Bob as it is I'm soothing my disappointment by fondling the GX-1, lol...
     
  8. dixeyk

    dixeyk Guest

    Okay...what about the rumored new Pen (E-P5)? I know you don't love the Olympus handling and UI. I feel similarly but I will say that of all the Olympus bodies I have had I thought the E-P3 was the best combination of responsiveness and controls and an E-P5 with IBIS and the Sony sensor from the E-M5 might be a viable option for you. You would likely still not get focus peaking and APS-C cameras would give you better DOF and overall IQ but I have no doubt the AF would be quick and it would have very good AWB and metering (both Olympus strengths). You'd have to deal with the Olympus UI and the controls would probably not be as intuitive as the GX1 (spoken as a former GX1 owner).

    Another thought would be a Sony Alpha a57....hear me out. For a DSLR it's light and small. It has a flip up screen, fast AF, focus peaking, image stabilization, more available lenses and most of all they're selling on the Sony site for $550. I'd buy one of these before I'd buy an E-M5. I have a friend that has a Sony Alpha body and loves it.

    http://camerasize.com/compare/#313,33
     
  9. Pelao

    Pelao SC All-Pro

    Jul 11, 2010
    Ontario, Canada
    Stephen
    My understanding too is that for ALL cameras the issue is different if you shoot RAW, since the screen shows a jpeg render. Of course, my understanding could well be wrong.
     
  10. nianys

    nianys SC Regular

    176
    Sep 10, 2012
    I would neither know nor care, since I never shoot RAW ;) But I understand your well raised point though.
     
  11. nianys

    nianys SC Regular

    176
    Sep 10, 2012
    Kevin the body I did consider is the A37, because it's really no bigger than a mirrorless. But it's considerably thicker, and to be blunt, more than a little ugly, lol. I can't put up with ugly ;)
    E-P5, phew, of all people you know how much aversion I have for everything Oly related (except the cheapo 40-150 that I literally worship because it's absolutely a million times better than it has any right to). Yes PENs are beautiful indeed, but m4/3, damn, I want APS-C !!!!
     
  12. pictogramax

    pictogramax SC Top Veteran

    978
    Aug 18, 2011
    Belgrade, Serbia
    So what is wrong with Nex6 and new 35mm 1.8 OSS combination?

    Good EVF (check), accurate real-time exposure preview (check), the lens similar to the one you wanted on Fuji (check), it's small (check).

    Is it ugly?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. nianys

    nianys SC Regular

    176
    Sep 10, 2012
    Far from it, and the 7 looks even better, I had both ;)
    Actually the AF is lame on NEX, but of course compared to Fuji X, it's a speed demon (which I found out today playing with the X100). I now regret selling my NEX 7, but dang I couldn't find that 35 in stock in time and got frustrated and just listed it and it sold in no time. Now looks like I need to find another one...
     
  14. dixeyk

    dixeyk Guest

    I'm telling you the firmware update for the 5n really did improve AF. There is also one out there for the NEX 6 and 7.
     
  15. dixeyk

    dixeyk Guest

    Well, I knew I was stretching there The a57 is pretty homely but I think most DSLRs are fugly so I figured if you were willing to go that route it would be a wash, as for m43...I hear you. I don't see a situation where I would go that route again. Not that I dislike it especially (I think they have some nice cameras/lenses) but it doesn't offer me anything I want at the moment.
     
  16. nianys

    nianys SC Regular

    176
    Sep 10, 2012
    Dang until you told me I was totally unaware of that update !! When was it released ?? I really rushed into selling my 7 and now miss it, especially since NOW the 35/1.8 is in stock and I could have tried it. After we come back from ski vacation i'll try to locate another 7 at the price I sold mine for.
     
  17. dixeyk

    dixeyk Guest

    I'll be a US location to ship to if that will help you find a good deal. BTW, I looked it up and the NEX 7 firmware update does not mention faster AF like the 5n one did (sorry) but here's a list of what it does do...

    • Adds ability to disable the Movie Record button to avoid accidental activation
    • Expands EV bracketing to 3 frames of 1EV, 2EV and 3EV increments
    • Improves auto playback review responsiveness
    • Improves image quality when using a wide angle lens
    • Improves indication when setting Flexible Spot AF mode

    also from Sony...

    Next is E-mount lens firmware v.2, for use with Hybrid AF E-mount on the αNEX-5R/αNEX-6. This specifically applies to the 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 Standard Zoom Lens ( SEL1855), the 55-210mm f/4.5-6.3 Telephoto Lens (SEL55210), the 18-200mm f/3.5-6.3 Telephoto Lens (SEL18200) and the 24mm f/1.8 Wide-Angle Prime Lens (SEL24F18Z) to enable Hybrid AF function with NEX-5R and NEX-6. It’s important to note that our E-mount lens firmware v2 is for the lens not the camera so it can be performed only with these lenses attached to Hybrid AF capable cameras (αNEX-5R/αNEX-6). Since these lenses were designed before the introduction of Hybrid AF, their firmware needed to be updated for Hybrid AF to function.
     
  18. pictogramax

    pictogramax SC Top Veteran

    978
    Aug 18, 2011
    Belgrade, Serbia
    It's all so relative:) I've been manual focusing legacy lenses on my Nex for many months; yesterday I went to a new camera shop here to check X10 in person (as I developed lusting after following your and Dixey's threads). While everyone complains about FUJI AF speed, I was like "wow, it's so fast":)

    On the other hand, I'm glad I finally got the chance to actually hold it in my hands. It was too small for me; it felt more like repairing a wristwatch than operating a camera:) And that "mute" viewfinder bugged me:-(

    Contrary to X10, I liked Nex6 immediatelly; size is just right, grip is much better; I already have some lenses and adapters. With new compact zoom it's just lovely and finally would give me a thumb wheel for changing shutter speeds in M mode. But being new, the price is much more than I'm willing to pay.

    To my surprise, there's one other camera I fell in love with. I picked Pana G3 just to check it out and really enjoyed the experience. It reminded me a lot of my treasured but now dead Canon Pro1, only on some mighty steroids. And it's smaller in person than I thought it would be by on-line images. Lovely little beast, and pretty cheap nowdays. Should I dump APSC for M43? Dixey to the rescue!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. nianys

    nianys SC Regular

    176
    Sep 10, 2012
    Hey, I had the NEX 6 and the Panny G3. Both pretty excellent cameras. I bought the X10 last week on Dixeyk's recommendation (he's the little red devil standing on my shoulder and making me buy camera stuff) and I love it. The AF is pretty acceptable, too. Let's say it's the slowest AF I can be decently happy with.

    @Kevin : now that you give me the detail yes I remember upgrading my 7 to that version... but after trying the X100 for a day I'm all ready to love NEX af, I swear ;-) !
     
  20. dixeyk

    dixeyk Guest

    Too funny...we all like what we like. For me the NEX is a good fit because I love manual focus lenses. I originally got my first m43 body because of the legacy glass so as good as the native stuff is it doesn't really do much for me. Funny that you found the G3 so compelling..I found that too small yet I love the X10. Funny. That said, I thought the G3 was pretty sweet and had it fit my hand a bit better I would likely have kept it. It's a heck of a deal too. I think m43 has much to recommend it. I wonder if you'd miss the NEX IQ and manual focus ability of the NEX with the G3?

    I think if I were to get another NEX I might be inclined to grab the NEX 7 when they announce the update to it (and prices drop). The built-in EVF, tri-navi interface and hot shoe would be a nice addition. The slow AF wouldn't have any impact on me. That said my 5n suits me pretty well so maybe not.