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Fujifilm X-Trans RAW (RAF) processed in Capture One 7.0.2 Beta vs Lightroom 4.2

Discussion in 'Fuji X Forum' started by tdp, Dec 25, 2012.

  1. tdp

    tdp Guest

    This evening I installed Phase One Capture One 7.0.2 beta and ran some test with Fuji X-Trans RAW files in comparison with Adobe's Lightroom 4.2. The test was simple, I grabbed an existing RAF file, imported and exported it in LR4.2 and CO7.0.2b. Then I took the same file and added some extra sharpening and exported it again. No other edits were done.

    Flickr guest pass to the entire set here: http://flickr.com/gp/tdp_photos/nh4426/

    UPDATE: I've been shooting through the week and testing various files between these two pieces of software, images will be added to the set above as I go along. While I understand certain types of images accentuate the problem with RAF files in LR, I'm not trying to create those situations (example: I could walk 2 minutes to the edge of the jungle and take a shot that is 100% vegetation, push the sharpening a bit and LR would destroy that shot. I don't take 100% jungle shots so why bother...). I'm just shooting like I always do, things I shoot the way I like to shoot. Also when I do actual edits to images in LR/C1 for this test, I state when I made edits. Some files are just in and out, some I edit to try and get the result I want. I also completely understand people that are more than happy with their current workflow and have no intention on changing anything. I'm not trying to sway a person one way or the other I'm just showing what results I'm getting with the two pieces of software on my photos taken with a Fuji X-E1.

    I have not added Silkypix to the mix (LR vs C1 vs SP) because for me, Silkypix is far from being usable software.

    This is the test image:

    8307005922_c489187ea7.
    CO 7 beta default sharpening by Photos By 夏天, on Flickr

    Here are some side by side close up results with CO on the left and LR on the right and default settings:

    8307009092_39339bea99_b.
    DEFAULT CO7b left LR4.2 right by Photos By 夏天, on Flickr

    8305961465_c1c457432a_b.
    DEFAULT CO7b left LR4.2 right by Photos By 夏天, on Flickr

    8305961873_2bd097452c_b.
    DEFAULT CO7b left LR4.2 right by Photos By 夏天, on Flickr

    8305961639_7f7e2a7de8_b.
    DEFAULT CO7b left LR4.2 right by Photos By 夏天, on Flickr


    One thing I have noticed with X-Trans RAW files in LR is you can't sharpen them much before the image becomes swirled and painting-like. This didn't happen with CO7b. Here are some after I did what I would consider normal sharpening for this shot. Again, CO is left and LR is right:

    8306011343_e6413ac92b_b.
    MORE SHARP CO7b left LR4.2 right by Photos By 夏天, on Flickr

    8307059448_04822f5c5f_b.
    MORE SHARP CO7b left LR4.2 right by Photos By 夏天, on Flickr

    8306011117_a1ec654dfe_b.
    MORE SHARP CO7b left LR4.2 right by Photos By 夏天, on Flickr

    8307058720_58879d54a1_b.
    MORE SHARP CO7b left LR4.2 right by Photos By 夏天, on Flickr

    I've not used Capture One software before but it is all self explanatory. It opened, zoomed and edited Fuji RAW files much faster than LR4.2. I would say CO and LR are both about the same for ease of use, not something I would say for Silkypix.

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    Flickr guest pass to the entire set here: http://flickr.com/gp/tdp_photos/nh4426/
     
  2. Ray Sachs

    Ray Sachs SC Legend

    Sep 21, 2010
    Not too far from Philly
    you should be able to figure it out...
    Cool, definitely gives them a bit more pop and clarity. I think they're onto something here, but its honestly not something I'd see without looking at 100% crops, so not something I'd switch applications for given that I use a few different cameras and don't want to have markedly different workflow for each. I'll probably still shoot jpegs on the Fuji anyway - I just like them that much. Raw for everything else I shoot, but I've never been able to improve on Fuji jpegs, even when I was shooting the X100's standard sensor which didn't have any issues with raw processing at all...

    -Ray
     
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  3. Pelao

    Pelao SC All-Pro

    Jul 11, 2010
    Ontario, Canada
    Stephen
    Thanks for posting the test.

    My photography doesn't often cover subjects where the challenges with LR exist for Fuji files. I have seen some of the smearing, but not to a problem degree. In this test I don't see a difference that would validate adding C1 to my workflow. But I will wait and see more tests, especially of foliage heavy landscapes , where there can be an issue.

    I think the release of the XE1 and the X100 successor will also up the pressure on Adobe - as will the C1 release.

    There are some results with more foliage over here:

    http://www.fujix-forum.com/index.php?/topic/6773-capture-one-raw-support-for-x-pro1x-e1-rumored-to-be-in-next-release/page-2
     
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  4. tdp

    tdp Guest

  5. stanleyk

    stanleyk SC Top Veteran

    558
    May 23, 2011
    Taylor, Texas
    I can see a difference especially on the last two. However I prefer the more muted colors and better highlight control of LR from these examples. I assume that one could reduce the highlights in Capture One. That is one of the best things about the Fuji sensor is the ability to retain an enormous amount of detail in highlights. It's better than my D700. Now I doubt it will outdo the newer FF cameras but it's still amazing from an APSC size sensor. One reason I like prefer the Fuji are the colors. I have been shooting RAW files with it for a while and converting in LR. I'm not sure I'm that unhappy with the results. I usually don't do any processing to them. They are almost always perfect right out of the camera. However, I will be following the Capture One. If would have no problem learning to use a different software. I already have LR (for the Fuji's X Pro, X100, and S5) and Aperture (which is actually better for the Nikon). Really they aren't that hard to use. I can't imagine that Capture One would be that hard.

    I wish Fuji would make a FF X Trans. I guess that would require new lenses but I'd definitely buy one. If there was a FF version of the X Pro with 28, 35, 50, and 85 that would be my only camera. Please Mr. Fuji!!!! :smile:
     
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  6. stanleyk

    stanleyk SC Top Veteran

    558
    May 23, 2011
    Taylor, Texas
    Now on this one I have to go with the Capture One. I'm am very intrigued. I have a feeling I'll be buying this software. You can still see the highlight difference on the yellow cab but that's splitting hairs and kind of silly. Thanks so much for taking the time to post this. I REALLY appreciate it!!!!!!!!
     
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  7. Lawrence A.

    Lawrence A. SC All-Pro

    Nov 8, 2012
    New Mexico
    Larry
    Thanks for this. I downloaded Capture One Pro 7 a while back and am still testing it. Between its treatment of x10 files and the ability to turn off automatic lens correction, I'll almost certainly by the Capture One. Version 5 was my main raw processor for a while, and I always liked the software.
     
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  8. tdp

    tdp Guest

    Jumping back and forth between the two pieces of software on these files, LR 4.2's slowness with Fuji X RAW files becomes more apparent. Also C1 seems to have more features than LR, yet LR is a bit more logically laid out. I have not read any user guides for C1 but I think you can customize what tools are where for the overall layout. When I get more time I will dig into it.

    When I import Fuji X RAW files into LR auto crops to 16:9 and I have to tell LR to crop it to "original" aspect ratio. I then highlight all the files and tell it to sync. I'm not sure why it wants to crop the files, it must be something in the way LR reads X RAW file codes. C1 doesn't do this.

    Dragging the highlight slider all the way to the left in LR pulls more highlights back than the same exercise in C1 (but in C1 you drag it to the right). Also, LR is stronger in pulling out shadows. In both cases C1 does good enough (to me) and LR can take you into surreal HDR mode if you aren't careful.
     
  9. Pelao

    Pelao SC All-Pro

    Jul 11, 2010
    Ontario, Canada
    Stephen
    Interesting notes. Thanks for taking the time. The differences are more apparent to my eye in your later posts.

    I have read that some people want to retain LR as their main catalogue and editing tool, and will do basic RAW conversion in C1 and then import a TIFF into LR for finishing.

    I'm looking forward to more comparisons and reviews.
     
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  10. tdp

    tdp Guest

    If you just want to process the RAW files into TIFFs then LR/PS them front here, Raw Photo Processor 64 might be a path worth looking into.
     
  11. tdp

    tdp Guest

  12. Luke

    Luke Super Moderator

    Nov 11, 2011
    Milwaukee, WI USA
    Luke
    1. Thanks for your extensive testing.
    2. At these gratuitous crops, it's clear to me that Capture One is doing a lot more right than Adobe.
    3. It is also clear to me that the differences only matter in these because they are close up crops and viewing by "normal" people at normal viewing distances will have neglible differences.
    4. I will stick with shooting JPEGs.....I just don't care enough.
    5. I should definitely stay away from the Fuji area of DPreview until those pixel peepers over there quit arguing about all this.
    6. I like making lists
     
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  13. stanleyk

    stanleyk SC Top Veteran

    558
    May 23, 2011
    Taylor, Texas
    Lists are good. :smile:

    I don't think the people on DPReview actually like photography.
     
  14. stanleyk

    stanleyk SC Top Veteran

    558
    May 23, 2011
    Taylor, Texas
    I am going to probably try out this software.
     
  15. stanleyk

    stanleyk SC Top Veteran

    558
    May 23, 2011
    Taylor, Texas
    tdp- Thanks again so much for doing this.
     
  16. chris24net

    chris24net New to SC

    3
    Dec 25, 2012
    So the only thing you're doing to the files when you import to C1 and LR is adding sharpening? What sharpening settings are you using? Never used C1 before this beta so trying to figure it all out compared to LR which is my regular program.

    Also, not sure about your beta copy, but mine defaults to adding 50 Luminance and 50 Color Noise reduction. And 50 Details under Noise Reduction Advanced (though not sure what exactly that does.) Do these examples have the default Noise Reduction from C1 that mine applies? Thanks.
     
  17. tdp

    tdp Guest

    Images on page one were just in and out with the defaults from both programs. Yes mine has values of 50 and 50 and sharpening is something like 149? I think the two 50s are more like zero, if you drop them down the photos don't look like I would expect a baseline image to look. The 149 sharpening is out of 500 or something like that.

    The other images I opened and edited as I wanted in C1 first then opened up the same RAW in LR and tried to get the same results. In C1 you can sharpen the file much more before you start to get bizarre artifacts.

    I know LR rather well and know how to quickly edit an image as I like, in C1 I'm still learning. If Scott Kelby is listening, a book on C1 would be greatly appreciated!

    -t
     
  18. chris24net

    chris24net New to SC

    3
    Dec 25, 2012