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Might the RX1R M2 bring a Firmware update for our older RX1R ?

Discussion in 'Sony RX1 Forum' started by RobertA, Dec 19, 2015.

  1. RobertA

    RobertA SC Rookie

    22
    Apr 26, 2015
    The most important thing to be fixed in my current RX1R would be the 1/80th speed in A mode before it ramps up the AutoISO ....
    Wonder if the new body will make ours to be updated.
    Not optimistic though :-(
     
  2. joshinthecity

    joshinthecity SC Rookie

    11
    Aug 12, 2015
    I think you're right to not be optimistic. I'd say it's highly unlikely.
    That's one of the few things I genuinely miss about shooting Fuji.
     
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  3. Chrisnmn

    Chrisnmn SC Veteran

    405
    Jul 8, 2012
    Auckland, New Zealand
    Chris Leskovsek
    According to this review Sony RX1R II Review: Now Shooting! - Field Test

    I also really enjoyed the way the Sony RX1R II handles Auto ISO operation. The camera allows you to set both a minimum and maximum ISO and without any limitation to the high ISO, which I've seen in other cameras. (The minimum ISO is limited however to 100; no expanded low ISOs with Auto ISO.) You can manually set a specific minimum shutter speed for Auto ISO mode, which helps prevent accidental camera shake or subject blur due the camera itself deciding to lower the shutter speed rather than increase the ISO.
    Is that what you were talking about?, it looks fixed to me.
     
  4. Ray Sachs

    Ray Sachs SC Legend

    Sep 21, 2010
    Not too far from Philly
    you should be able to figure it out...
    They started doing auto ISO right in the A7R II and also have now done it in the RX100 IV, the RX10 II, and RX1 II. The OP's question was whether they'd ever update the firmware in the original RX1 to add that functionality. When Fuji finally got around to increasing their available minimum shutter speed in auto ISO to 1/500 (from a thoroughly useless 1/125) with the XE2 and XT1, they also updated the firmware in the X-Pro 1 and XE1 to add the same thing (although I don't believe they did in the lower end XM1 and XA1 bodies). I've read somewhere that Sony designed the RX1 in a way that they technically can't update the firmware in any meaningful way. I don't have any idea if that's true or not, but it seem pretty plainly the case that they don't have any intention of doing it, whether they can or not.

    I don't personally have any interest in in the new RX1 II (at least until used prices get down well under $2000 like the first gen RX1 is now, but maybe not then either), but if they did update the auto ISO firmware in the original, I'd buy another one of those as fast as I could scrape the money together. I don't really need the built in EVF, the flip screen, or the faster AF (although I wouldn't mind having any of those), but I really don't want anything to do with a 42mp sensor. And the battery life was already incredibly limited with the first RX1 - from what I understand, it's notably worse with the new one... Which, having gotten spoiled by DSLR battery life, I don't know if I could go back to... But I'd love to have that lens again somehow - jeez, what a sweet piece of glass...

    -Ray
     
  5. serhan

    serhan SC All-Pro

    May 7, 2011
    NYC
    Sony is getting better with firmware releases, but so far it is for the newer cameras. Normally they were fixing the issues with the new camera releases unless they have big problems. Maybe enough people raised concerns they would have put it on the older cameras, eg A7 II got the same uncompressed raw and pd af with third party adapters same as Sony A7R II, but still there is no min shutter speed with A7 II.

    Fuji is great with firmwares which extend the life of the cameras. Olympus did a big firmware update for EM1. Hopefully we will see that more...
     
  6. christilou

    christilou SC Hall of Famer

    Jul 13, 2010
    Sunny Frimley
    Personally, I've been grateful for the minimum 1/80th shutter speed, auto iso implementation as it's saved my bacon on many an occasion! I have a shaky right hand so it suits me better than the A7RII which gives you a choice of 1/60th or 125th, too little and too much for my needs. I would so love faster af though.
     
  7. Chrisnmn

    Chrisnmn SC Veteran

    405
    Jul 8, 2012
    Auckland, New Zealand
    Chris Leskovsek
    My main camera was the Sony A7 (the very first one), until last week when I sold it. Sony never updated that either.

    Actually the whole 'firmware update' trends to me, seem just a marketing status.
    I don't mind having cameras without firmware updates if they are done right, and clearly Sony is not the one implementing them right. Dont get me wrong, they have/own the technology to do almost anything we could ask them to, yet they have little clue of how to design and implement it into a real world camera, yet certainly they are getting better at it.
    Firmware updates on the other hand seems to me a justification for manufacturers to release 'half cooked' products into the public and 'fix them on the way' while customers feel 'they are getting support' but they are just being 'testers' for the manufacturers. I dont know, I dont mind both, having support through firmware certainly expands the life of a product and we throw less garbage into the ocean while at it, but I dont mind paying and extra premium for a well designed/implemented camera from the beginning.

    After all, camera manufacturers keep claiming that the business is constantly shrinking, but since I bought my A7 (October 2013) to December 2015 (2 years+) Sony has released more than 4 (I believe) 'newer-better' A7 cameras.
     
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  8. Ray Sachs

    Ray Sachs SC Legend

    Sep 21, 2010
    Not too far from Philly
    you should be able to figure it out...
    I have to disagree pretty strongly with this. First, I think it's great that more companies seem to be making REAL improvements via firmware. For sure, some of them were because the camera in question may not have been ready for prime time as released (such as the Fuji X100), but lots of very good cameras have gotten significantly better via firmware. Like the EM1 and XT1 for example.

    And second, I don't agree that Sony isn't implementing their cameras really well right now. They've had some pretty shaky models in past years (early Nex models, the first RX100), but I'd say the RX1 was pretty wonderful in terms of camera design and the new RX1 II is notably better than that. And the recent versions of the RX10 and RX100 are really good too. The A7R wasn't bad and the A7R II is excellent. And they've finally started doing some FW improvements too, like offering uncompressed raw files, which people had been screaming about for a while with their cameras. They don't seem to be reaching back to fix older models, as Fuji has done, but they're doing good stuff with their current models. I don't own a Sony currently and don't anticipate owning one anytime soon, but I've had a few over the years (RX1 most recently) been extremely impressed by how much better their cameras are than they were just a few years ago, to the point that whether you prefer them vs someone else is more of a matter of taste than one being better than another. And, yeah, they're also driving the technology pretty hard, which helps all of us, regardless of what we're shooting...

    -Ray
     
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  9. Lightmancer

    Lightmancer Super Moderator

    Aug 13, 2011
    Sunny Frimley
    Bill Palmer


    I can only speak from the point of view of being a very satisfied user of both Ricoh and Fuji products, both of which have followed a kaisen approach of continuous improvement and release significant firmware upgrades on a regular basis that improve already successful products. That is a million light years away in both philosophy and execution of "...releasing 'half-cooked' products...". The concept of agile development and MVP is long-established and is not by any means getting the users to test stuff for you. Ricoh and Fuji have built a deserved reputation for producing cameras for photographers that are improved over time based on feedback from photographers. Long may they continue to do so.
     
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  10. Tilman Paulin

    Tilman Paulin SC Top Veteran

    677
    Nov 15, 2011
    Dublin, Ireland
    Maybe there's a pattern in why some manufacturers are putting in more effort to extend the life of their cameras with significant feature updates/improvements in firmware:
    Ricoh's, Fuji's and Olympus' access to new sensor tech seems to be more limited (they're all still using "older" sensors even in their current releases).
    Sony's rise to success in the camera market though came through pushing the hardware side - releasing new cameras with improved sensors in short upgrade cycles.
    In order to "compete" with that it seems to be a viable strategy for the 'smaller players', to add extra-value on the software side.

    There's obviously more factors to it than that... Anyway, I'm looking forward to installing firmware 4 on my EM1 and playing around with in-camera focus stacking. (Well I'm not actually looking forward to the process of installing the firmware and changing all my settings again, but that's a different story :) )
     
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  11. Chrisnmn

    Chrisnmn SC Veteran

    405
    Jul 8, 2012
    Auckland, New Zealand
    Chris Leskovsek
    I absolutely agree Bill. Yet, what I was talking about is sony here, not other brands. I own Ricoh, in fact, I am the kind of photographer that wishes Ricoh made more cameras other than the GR. The GR is one of the best designed and implemented cameras there IMHO. Fuji, I personally like their current products, but they don't work for me.
    Now when you say that Ricoh is amongst the ones that continuously improve their cameras through firmware, I have to say, yes, they do it, but In almost three years that I have had the GR only two firmwares have come up and only one with a significant 'improvement' which was the 'fast AF speed', nothing else. So I'm not too sure how the word 'continuously' applies there. On the other hand, I do know, and read all the time that Fuji updates present and older products, much more so than Ricoh in this case.

    Anyhow, I insist, I like firmware updates like everyone else, it makes us all feel like they 'listen' to us by improving certain areas, but im not sure how much improvement there is (that we dont know).
    I personally think that they release a product nowadays to its 90% and then leave room to the other 10% through firmware updates in an X amount of time to see what people thinks/want, making us feel that the product is 'constantly evolving' and being 'supported'. Now, in the RX1 case, I believe that it was crap from Sony not to upgrade their most expensive camera in their entire catalog, but the new MK2 version seems like an amazing improvement or at least over the areas I was looking for them to fix, over the previous version, and I am selling everything I've got, except for my GR to fund it. That's how much faith I have in Sony.
     
  12. Tilman Paulin

    Tilman Paulin SC Top Veteran

    677
    Nov 15, 2011
    Dublin, Ireland
    I just had a thought when I saw a press release for Sony's "Sky HDR" PlayMemories app.
    Maybe Sony is focussing on these apps to add "new features" to their cameras. The list of supported cameras is quite big - the RX1 Mk1 isn't on it though.

    So maybe their approach is to create a software platform, where - rather than working on individual firmware updates - they can release "apps" which run on all their cameras (which support it).

    Going forward this could be a great thing. It's of course no good for owners of cameras which don't support this feature...
     
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  13. RobertA

    RobertA SC Rookie

    22
    Apr 26, 2015
    Ray, I totally agree !!!

    I consult on these matters and it's good to know that there are other people out there caring for quaility :)
     
  14. RobertA

    RobertA SC Rookie

    22
    Apr 26, 2015
    Now if only someone could be so knowledgeable and interested into hacking into the RX1 firmware like the Magic Lantern guys did for Canon firmware ... wonder why don't camera makers actually let this happen more easily. I guess it would make them sell MORE not less.
     
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  15. serhan

    serhan SC All-Pro

    May 7, 2011
    NYC
    From Outdoor Photography Jan-Feb 2016 edition, Olympus ad:
    "MYTH: Your new OM-D camera will be obsolete in a year.
    MIRRORLESS TRUTH: Firmware upgrades let you love your camera longer." :)

    Sony goes with the apps. I have not tried any. According to Fred Miranda, the sky HDR (Grad ND filters) is not very useful, but the smooth reflection (replaces ND filters) is a great app eg multishots stacked as one raw and reduced noise...
    Sky HDR and Smooth Reflection Apps
     
  16. ccrevasse

    ccrevasse SC Regular

    48
    Nov 20, 2013
    Lookout Mountain, Tennessee
    Chris Crevasse
    I'm keeping my fingers crossed that Sony WILL issue a firmware update for the original RX1 once sales of the Mark 2 settle down. I can't think of any reason why Sony wouldn't at least update the Mark 1's auto ISO implementation. Maybe Sony will even improve the start-up time and AF of the original. Those three improvements would completely quiet the tiny voice that occasionally tries to tempt me with the Mark 2.
     
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