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Discussion in 'Open Gear Talk' started by Yeats, Aug 29, 2013.
Shame there isn't one.
The closest might be the brand-new Sony A3000. But it's a low-res viewfinder and the IS is in the lens. Still, the price is only $399 with kit 18-55mm zoom. And it has a 20mp APS-C sensor. Think NEX-3 with a compact DSLR form factor. One could do worse for the price.
I think the closest is the K-01 + LCD Viewfinder... but I'd rather have a real EVF.
Want IBIS for my loverly legacy glass... don't want M43 only because I'd prefer not to have the FOV for those lenses "lengthened".
Then, if I were you, I'd wait for Sony's replacements to its line of DSLR-class SLT cameras. They'll likely lose the pellicle mirror to become truly mirrorless and feature on-chip, phase-detection autofocus. If these cameras aren't announced this year, they likely will be early next year. The future is almost here. And it's mirrorless with big sensors: APS-C and even full-frame.
Steve, would I sound petulant if I said that I want it to be Pentax? Slap an EVF on the K-01...
FF would be really cool, but it would most likely be out of my price range.
Although if you don't mind IS in the lens, the Fuji X-E1 with 18-55mm is a superb pair. Just a beautiful combo.
the K-30 isn't that much bigger than the K-01. SUre it has a mirror, but we all know you can't have everything.
chris i totally understand the desire for IS, it was always at the top of my list as i mostly shoot mf glass. this is especially understandable if your glass is of the heavier slr (pentax?) variety, vs smaller rf glass.
but i'll tell ya' my experience is that you will gain at least a stop, maybe more, shooting with an evf (vs lcd), so that the cam is properly braced against your head. additionally, the fuji line, and the sony line, both shoot high iso fabulously. IBIS becomes less necessary when one can easily shoot at 3200.
i think this combo of factors might lead you to the xpro/xe1 or nex 5/6/7 with very good results.
Yes. I like what Sony's doing in that direction with this new 3000 camera at an INCREDIBLY low price point. This is one of the thing mirrorless SHOULD have been doing all along: vastly reducing the price to get involved in photography. I think mirrorless has shot itself in the foot to a great extent charging DSLR prices for a camera with fewer parts that is easier to build. Sony is moving things in the right direction.
I'm not sure I WANT the whole APS-C thing though. Then I'm back to lenses that are bigger and heavier. I WANT micro four thirds for small and light for packing in with my urbex incursions. I hate trying to sneak into an old building complex pre-dawn on rickety floors with a 25 pound pack of cameras, lenses, and tripod. The weight is 1/2 or less with micro four thirds.
So I'll stick with smaller sensors. I'm getting prints that amaze people out of 16mp micro four thirds cameras -- I was hanging last night and the board for this concert venue was amazed at the 24x36 inch prints and that they came from small sensor cameras.
Big sensors just aren't necessary for MOST work, even much critical work.
john i think OP issue with m43 is not quality, its what it does to the FL of his legacy glass, the use of which on mirrorless seems to be his primary goal. having produced some great images on m43 myself for years, i can attest that shooting mf glass closer to their original FL was the major factor in my moving to apsc with the gxr. i was lucky in that i shoot mostly rf glass, so i could get apsc out of a cam equal in size and weight to my old ep2.
but the reality is the sony line and the fuji xe1 are very small and light cams. the fuji also has a couple of pretty darn small AF lenses as well. i dont think your giving much up with the xe1, except variety of tiny AF glass.
K-02 with EVF port and FF would rule the roost.
Those are very good points. In my case for the most part I've left legacy glass behind and "gone native", lol. You're right in that I was certainly not addressing the OP's point though -- just expressing my own feelings about direction.
If the companies would price this stuff right, there's room for a thriving APS-C and smaller sensor community and a wave of new sales -- I just think they've priced them too high to really attract people to this. (And again I'm not addressing the original point, lol -- guess I have an axe to grind about current mirrorless sales problems and my perceptions of why they struggle...)
i totally agree with you john. pricing is silly. thats why, imo, i think the best deal out there is the xe1 at $599. if one does use legacy glass and thus doesnt need to buy lenses, that is one sweet cam deal.
having said all that i did, let me totally contradict myself and let on that ive been drooling over the reports of the panny gx7! at $1000 no less!
I want to be able to stabilize my legacy glass, which I enjoy using... but yeah, I really like the Fuji's output.
I'm tired of mirror-slap, focus adjustment, blahblah. I want to be able to use both the LCD and EVF as composition devices without having to switch between modes.
I shoot quite a bit in dim light, so I'm at 3200/6400 already, lol. Some subjects (my cats! again, lol) behave differently - more relaxed - when they can see my face as I photograph them.
If the m4/3 sensor had a crop factor of 1.5 instead of 2, I'd be using a new-ish m4/3 camera... maybe even have stretched for the Oly EM5, which seems to be an amazing camera.
Yep, you nailed it.
Ja, and would cost $2k +... but man oh man would it be a statement by Ricoh.
I agree, John. Mirrorless has been surprisingly expensive. I think if pricing - particularly the lenses - were just a little bit beneath APS-C, APS-C could get really, really squeezed between m4/3 and full frame.
Yes, it would. And I am sure Pentax will eventually be turning out DSLR-class mirrorless cameras with all the features Chris wants and more. But I don't expect Pentax to be leading that wave the way Sony appears to be now. I'd love to be wrong. Meanwhile, re: A3000. I know the EVF is low-res, but couldn't you see picking up one of those and maybe adding the Sigma 19mm and 30mm primes in E-mount? Quite a tidy, compact package and you wouldn't have to worry that much about trashing a $399 camera (with kit lens). Plus, you'd already have the two Sigmas for that NEX-6 that you know you want to pick up on closeout.
Chris loves his Pentax lenses (with good reason) and just wants to use them on a body with IBIS without a mirror and with a VF for those sunny days.
I would love to c a Fuji x camera w/ the Olympus 5 axis ibis... Don't think that will ever happen. There is a rumor that Sony may use the Olympus type ibis in their Nex line in the future.
The way I attacked the issue w/ legacy lenses was focal lengths 50 and under I can use on normal apsc camera body like the Fuji or Ricoh gxr. 50 and above, I use my omd so I can take advantage of ibis where it really counts and 2x crop factor. Think of it in a different way, u can have a 90f2.8 become a 180f2.8 that has the support of ibis.. For example. Plus a 180f2.8 lenses is not only a real expensive lens but is much heavier then a 90f2.8.
Something I just calculated...
The Fuji X-E1 w/18-55 kit lens ($1200/new) + 55-200 ($623/used) + 60mm Macro ($524/used) = $2347. These are Amazon prices. This covers the focal length range of my Pentax kit, although my setup offers more DOF control. The Fuji lenses are probably a bit sharper than what I have.
That's approximately 2.5x what I've paid for my Pentax stuff, even including all the little accessories like m42 adapters, caps, etc.
I'm just a teeny bit surprised that, given the various options and permutations in the mirrorless world, there's no APS-C mirrorless with IBIS and EVF.