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Nikon shuts down Nikon 1 System

Discussion in 'Nikon 1 Forum' started by drd1135, Aug 29, 2016.

  1. drd1135

    drd1135 SC Hall of Famer

    Jul 13, 2011
    Southwest Virginia
    Steve
  2. wt21

    wt21 SC Hall of Famer

    Aug 15, 2010
    as far as I can tell, the 1" sensor is the perfect fixed-lens, quality compact at present. Maybe that's what made the 1" ILC irrelevant??
     
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  3. drd1135

    drd1135 SC Hall of Famer

    Jul 13, 2011
    Southwest Virginia
    Steve
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2016
  4. Lightmancer

    Lightmancer Super Moderator

    Aug 13, 2011
    Sunny Frimley
    Bill Palmer
    Nikon and to a lesser extent Canon are terrified of cannibalising their DSLR sales and eroding their core market.
     
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  5. gryphon1911

    gryphon1911 SC Top Veteran

    539
    Feb 6, 2015
    Central Ohio, USA
    Andrew
    This is total conjecture on my part and my views are not shared by/supported by this website or Nikon. :D

    I still contend in my little head that the Nikon 1 system was an "experimental" system for Nikon. I believe that the felt OK in experimenting with some things in this system, and if they could recoup some money in it by others buying it that was all well and good. They could do this by not putting untested technology into their bread and butter lines (DSLR). From my estimation, they have a great on chip phase detect AF system, they figured out how to get a decent if not superb continuous frame rate.

    I think a lot of what was learned there will show itself in the new DL line of cameras and when Nikon decides to go mirrorless with their mainstream line of cameras, I have a feeling they will be killer.

    My gut is telling me that the first cameras will still be DSLR-esque, with a new mount, digital centric but with a killer on chip PDAF/CDAF hybrid system and a built in EVF. If they are smart, they will provide an adapter like they do on the 1 system for adapting the AF-S lenses to work on this camera as well. The first cameras to do this will be the D5000/D7000 series cameras, then it will trickle down to the D3000 series, then to the Dxxx APS-C sensors - then eventually to a 135 Dxxx camera body. The Dx bodies will be the last to get swapped over.

    You figure that a company loses moeny in R&D, hoping to recoup it later, but I think this was a longer term play here. While I love my m43 gear, and I'll most likely keep the PEN-F and a few primes forever(along with my Nikon Df)....I can see me divesting myself of the OM-D cameras I have if Nikon releases a D500 spec'd mirrorless version with the high performance goodies I mentioned previously.

    Again - all pie in the sky, my own tin foil hat theories....but fun to speculate. :D
     
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  6. wt21

    wt21 SC Hall of Famer

    Aug 15, 2010
    I HOPE you are right, because more innovation is better for us! But isn't it easier to AF smaller glass with deeper DOF (from sensor size being so small), making their achievement in AF, while certainly impressive, still bearing a footnote?

    Also, I finally upgraded my RX100 to an RX100 iii because I couldn't wait anymore for the DL 18-50 :( And there's not even a peep about when it will be ready. It's starting to feel like something they regretted announcing (??). Or, more likely with my luck, now that I've upgrade, the DL's should start rolling next week!
     
  7. drd1135

    drd1135 SC Hall of Famer

    Jul 13, 2011
    Southwest Virginia
    Steve
    It's certainly a possible theory. I suspect this is part of their thinking. They may have really wanted the 1 system to do better but are willing to learn and use this info to make a better product. I decided to wait no longer and have an RX100 coming. A pocket system is just too tempting if the IQ is good enough.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2016
  8. Jock Elliott

    Jock Elliott SC All-Pro

    Jan 3, 2012
    Troy, NY
    Well, that's too bad. Some folks had been guessing at this for a while, since Nikon had not introduced anything new in the Nikon 1 line for a while.

    It gives one pause in thinking about possibility committing to an ILC system.

    Cheers, Jock
     
  9. Jock Elliott

    Jock Elliott SC All-Pro

    Jan 3, 2012
    Troy, NY
    Bill,

    It strikes me that if Nikon were to incorporate the Nikon 1 autofocus system (which apparently was blazing fast) into an APS-C mirrorless or full frame mirrorless system, I can't see where there would be any advantage to a DSLR, but maybe I am overlooking something.

    Cheers, Jock
     
  10. gryphon1911

    gryphon1911 SC Top Veteran

    539
    Feb 6, 2015
    Central Ohio, USA
    Andrew
    You still have battery life and EVF blackout issues. I just recently shot a 2 day festival with my Nikon setup(D300/D700) and the batteries did not even take a blip off the meter. close to 600 images - powered on for almost 16 hours straight.

    I cannot do that with my Oly kits. If I kept them "awake" all the time, I'd be chewing through batteries. Granted most shots I know where they were going to happen, but there are a good portion where I just needed to grab the camera, put it up to my eye and start firing. I may not be able to get that kind of performance from the Oly if it has gone to sleep.
     
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  11. Ray Sachs

    Ray Sachs SC Legend

    Sep 21, 2010
    Not too far from Philly
    you should be able to figure it out...
    And the rest of us wishing for rain but unwilling to go wash our cars to guarantee it - we thank you for your sacrifice! If there was anything else I was interested in beside the DL 18-50, I'd have bought it by now. But there isn't so I'll wait and see if it ever happens...

    -Ray
     
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  12. Jock Elliott

    Jock Elliott SC All-Pro

    Jan 3, 2012
    Troy, NY
    This trick works pretty well on my OM-D E-M5: Way to quadruple battery life on the Olympus OM-D EM-5

    Cheers, Jock
     
  13. JKLso

    JKLso SC Regular

    45
    Nov 24, 2014
    near Kelso WA USA
    jim
    Ironically, of the two defunct ILC formats I preferred the Pentax Q to the Nikon 1. I come from a Pentax dSLR background, so having a menu that was a clone of the K-5 series was really nice; the N1 was a struggle for me to understand.
     
  14. davidzvi

    davidzvi SC Regular

    180
    Apr 18, 2014
    David
    It would be nice, we'll see. I think a DX sensor sized system would have made more sense. Add a simple adapter to make up for the difference in the mirror box with AF pass through and you'd have plenty of lens options until you could build up a native selection.

    Personally I think the biggest issue right from the start was the sensor. Why did they not start with the Sony 20mp sensor? The original RX100 seems to perform better than all but the J5. Really hard to sell a premium system when a pocket camera has better resolution and high ISO performance.
     
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  15. MoonMind

    MoonMind SC Top Veteran

    578
    Dec 29, 2013
    Switzerland
    Matt
    While it wouldn't surprise me to see this confirmed in the near future, I somewhat disagree about the value of the system as a whole. I still own the V1 with the 18.5mm lens, and while not quite as competent as some of the later :mu43: bodies, it's a nifty little camera and built like a tank - much more robust than everything *of a comparable size* available with a :mu43: sensor, and it *has* a very good EVF too, still way better than what's built into the GM5, for instance (it's as good as the one in the E-M10, easily). And while it's true that the 16MP sensors are much, much better than the first 1" sensor, it was actually competitive compared to the older 12MP sensors that were out at the time of its arrival - no small feat, especially considering that Sony certainly was reluctant to share their early 1" sensors with anyone. More importantly, the images this camera puts out are very nice and quite workable, AF is very compelling, and battery life is impressive (though I don't really need that in my usage). If I need to quickly document something, I still reach for that camera - portable files (even in RAW), yet consistent quality and somewhat easier to get their best out of them than is the case with :mu43: (which by extension means that :mu43: files offer considerably more latitude, of course - the 16MP files are, as already mentioned, way superior).

    The JPEGs are very usable too; I like both the Neutral and Monochrome profiles - this is SOOC (IIRC):

    13892843779_47bcf5ed7e_c.
    generations (station shot 2)
    on Flickr

    btw. I couldn't have taken that image with any compact (apart from the GR) because startup on those is laggy *at best*, sometimes downright slow - while switching on the V1 and pulling it up to my eye was one movement, no wait (the best moment had already gone even so, and that image you see wouldn't have lasted for another 2 seconds - that's why I didn't take another half-step forward to frame this better: The opportunity was about to end).

    I think the worst decision on Nikon's part was pricing, particularily early on - it was way out for all models; once prices came down (I paid roughly $250 for my camera, brand new), the cameras presented great value. I think Nikon treated most models like small series items (*exclusivity* driving up production cost and market prices) - which promptly forced the cameras to become just that. If it was an experimental platform, they should have tried to get as many of those cameras out there as possible to see how their performance held up - if you're counting in a loss, you might as well see it through. As it is, it was mainly the overpricing that protected other lines, not the quality of the images - most people would have been completely satisfied with what those cameras put out.

    M.
     
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  16. Jock Elliott

    Jock Elliott SC All-Pro

    Jan 3, 2012
    Troy, NY
    I had an email conversation with a news photographer who uses the first model of the Nikon 1 and he thought it was pretty terrific, particularly its ability to focus almost instantly.

    I flirted with the idea of buying one with the long lens for wildlife stuff; I'm glad I didn't now.

    Cheers, Jock
     
  17. drd1135

    drd1135 SC Hall of Famer

    Jul 13, 2011
    Southwest Virginia
    Steve
    I think (not know) that these compacts will become increasingly competitive as the quality of the "innards" which results in things like start-up time gets better. Given Nikon's announcement to develop three distinct 1 inch compacts wiht different zoom ranges, I suspect they have decided to cover the FL range with different cameras and not different lenses.
     
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  18. stratokaster

    stratokaster SC Top Veteran

    886
    Dec 27, 2010
    Kiev, Ukraine
    Pavel
    I'm pretty sad to see the Nikon 1 system gone — I have owned the V1 and I think it's a terrific piece of gear. The only thing that prevented me from investing more into the system was that Nikon's commitment to it seemed questionable at best.

    The thing I liked the most about it was that it was an absolutely reliable tool in terms of exposure, focus and other core photographic features: once I learned its limitations, my hit rate really went through the roof.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2016
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  19. davidzvi

    davidzvi SC Regular

    180
    Apr 18, 2014
    David
    I agree that pricing was probably a bigger issue for many. For me it was about 50/50 price and lower light stuff. I got into m4/3 on the cheap with an E-PM1 kit and moved to a GX1 body (with the 16mp sensor) within a year. So when I started thinking of expanding my system or changes to something else it had to compete with that 16mp sensor. At that time it was the J3 and V2. The J3 did have the features I wanted and the V2 was still too expensive. Had the V2 been a bit cheaper and have the 20mp Sony sensor I might very well have switched.
     
  20. bassman

    bassman SC Rookie

    20
    Feb 12, 2014
    New Jersey, USA
    Well, I supported the experiment by buying the V1 and three lenses right after they were released. It had the feeling of a product that was deliberately crippled to avoid cannibalizing the F mount cameras, and was priced way too high to sell very well. The lack of support for CLS flashes, for full comparability with F mount lenses, with terrible ergonomics were only partly offset by the focusing speed and size.

    Once the OM-D became available, I moved on to m43 and never looked back. Well, not entirely true: I looked at the V2 and V3, but they didn't solve most of the problems and in some ways got worse: where the V1 shared a battery with my D7000, the later ones didn't. And the V3 lost the built-in EVF. Nikon could have had a winner IMHO if they embraced maximum integration with the F mount system, but they played scared and lost. Thousands in revenue from me to Olympus and Panasonic rather than Nikon.
     
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