As mentioned elsewhere, this appears to be a camera really aimed at jpeg shooters who don't want to do PP.
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Micro 4/3 Olympus Pen-F announcement v.soon.
- Thread starter Ghosthunter
- Start date
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- Tags
- m4/3 m43 micro four thirds mu43
As mentioned elsewhere, this appears to be a camera really aimed at jpeg shooters who don't want to do PP.
Ghosthunter
boo!
- Location
- London UK
- Name
- Andy
Confession time: When I 1st saw images of the new pen-f on 43rumours I was disappointed in the way it looked. It has grown on me and this morning after reading the releases and watching the vids I was all "Yeah! That's the camera for me!!"
Now I have had time to think about it I'm not so sure. The filters are great but would I actually use them? I shoot Raw all the time and I suspect that as soon as Lightroom has the support then i will shoot RAW all the time. Like most cool features on cameras they are nice to have but how often do we actually use them? Functionality is important but filters are not. My A7 is amazing for IQ and has a beautiful look to the images but looking at files from this camera they just have the usual M4/3 look to them.
So I won't be ordering it just ye. Plenty of time to see if others can get great results in the real world.
Now I have had time to think about it I'm not so sure. The filters are great but would I actually use them? I shoot Raw all the time and I suspect that as soon as Lightroom has the support then i will shoot RAW all the time. Like most cool features on cameras they are nice to have but how often do we actually use them? Functionality is important but filters are not. My A7 is amazing for IQ and has a beautiful look to the images but looking at files from this camera they just have the usual M4/3 look to them.
So I won't be ordering it just ye. Plenty of time to see if others can get great results in the real world.
wt21
Hall of Famer
My confession: this camera is is cementing my move away from m43. My issues with the GX7 started it, and if the latest and greatest update is only knobs and dials (and bigger bodies on the GX8), then I'm not sure where else they'll go. I think I'll stick with Sony for now, though the rumors around Canon (and Nikon to a lesser extent) are starting to swirl. Only reason I'd be interested in Canikon is because of the lens options.
RT Panther
All-Pro
Much like the E-P1 and the original Fuji X100, IMHO, the 2nd iteration of this camera will really be what "we" were waiting for...
Lightmancer
Legend
- Location
- Sunny Frimley
- Name
- Bill Palmer
Here's what I think (with a little gentle ribbing of Mr. Huff 
)
Fuji X-Pro2 and Olympus PEN-F: Premature comparisons
) Fuji X-Pro2 and Olympus PEN-F: Premature comparisons
I agree. I don't think the pen f is targeted at you guys.
tilman
All-Pro
- Location
- Portland, OR
Nothing wrong with shooting jpgs in my opinion.
And nothing wrong with a company that puts in some effort to give us beautiful images right out of camera. (Olympus is not the only company doing this of course).
Now, if Olympus is doing everything "right" with the Pen F, is another question (and a highly individual one).
I for one would welcome fewer knobs and dials (and less decisions to make) on a camera - and have the camera nail the crucial things (white balance and exposure). That stuff makes me spend less time in post-processing (and is one of the reasons why I'm ok with schlepping around a big old E1 as my "snapshot camera" )
And nothing wrong with a company that puts in some effort to give us beautiful images right out of camera. (Olympus is not the only company doing this of course).
Now, if Olympus is doing everything "right" with the Pen F, is another question (and a highly individual one).
I for one would welcome fewer knobs and dials (and less decisions to make) on a camera - and have the camera nail the crucial things (white balance and exposure). That stuff makes me spend less time in post-processing (and is one of the reasons why I'm ok with schlepping around a big old E1 as my "snapshot camera"
)tilman
All-Pro
- Location
- Portland, OR
Another point that just occurred to me (as the morning coffee is slowly kicking in ):
There might be two different ways of looking at this camera (or any camera really):
- Will this camera work well with the way I'm doing photography at the moment?
or
- Will it invite me to experiment / play in new ways that I usually wouldn't try?
Again, highly individual...
Just thinking that I'm kind of set in a way of doing things. And the idea of playfully trying out different modes "in-camera" could be refreshing.
No idea if the Pen F would actually succeed in doing this for me (it might for others).
And no idea if that justifies it's premium price (but looking at Olympus' premium accessories for the 'Pen F' I suspect there's another reason for the current price )
):There might be two different ways of looking at this camera (or any camera really):
- Will this camera work well with the way I'm doing photography at the moment?
or
- Will it invite me to experiment / play in new ways that I usually wouldn't try?
Again, highly individual...
Just thinking that I'm kind of set in a way of doing things. And the idea of playfully trying out different modes "in-camera" could be refreshing.
No idea if the Pen F would actually succeed in doing this for me (it might for others).
And no idea if that justifies it's premium price (but looking at Olympus' premium accessories for the 'Pen F' I suspect there's another reason for the current price
)
- Location
- Helsinki, Finland
Nothing wrong with shooting jpgs in my opinion.
And nothing wrong with a company that puts in some effort to give us beautiful images right out of camera. (Olympus is not the only company doing this of course).
Pssst, I reveal a secret, I've been using a lot SOOC JPEGs lately, from Fuji though, but anyway. And if necessary, just a little bit tweaking in post for JPEGs. It is really rare now that I touch the RAW. I challenged myself to learn the settings in camera, and challenged myself to "do it right" in the first place. And it is really liberating, namely from PP burden. (Of course this is because I'm not so good in PP and don't see motivation to practise and learn)
- Location
- Jersey Shore
- Name
- Steve
It might be nice if Olympus eventually brought out a decontented version of the Pen F without all the extra buttons and knobs. Perhaps the E-PL8 will be something like that.
pictor
All-Pro
This camera looks really nice indeed, but I think I won't buy it. I am rather concerned about the big knob on the front of such a small camera. I have seen Robin Wong's wounded fingers just because of shooting with the camera for a while. This is not something I want to deal with. I am no JPEG shooter and don't even need the knob. Robin Wong, Ming Thein and other reviewers wrote about artefacts due to noise reduction even at low ISO with deactivated noise reduction. I know that from my E-M5 and I really hate that. Even my old E-PL1 doesn't show these artefacts.
Actually, I am not sure about my future with µ4/s. I already own nearly everything I need and there is not much of an improvement anyway. The 16MP sensor of the E-M5 certainly isn't much worse than the new 20MP sensor. I expect the new sensor to be about the same with more pixels. That's fine, but not enough to switch. So I may keep what I already own and stop expanding the system, unless new needs arrive. Well, I may eventually expand my gear with a Sony and shoot with nice manual lenses.
Actually, I am not sure about my future with µ4/s. I already own nearly everything I need and there is not much of an improvement anyway. The 16MP sensor of the E-M5 certainly isn't much worse than the new 20MP sensor. I expect the new sensor to be about the same with more pixels. That's fine, but not enough to switch. So I may keep what I already own and stop expanding the system, unless new needs arrive. Well, I may eventually expand my gear with a Sony and shoot with nice manual lenses.
I agree. They are very different cameras. I now wonder to myself how much of a market is there for an industrial strength Jpeg camera. I honestly don't know.Here's what I think (with a little gentle ribbing of Mr. Huff
Fuji X-Pro2 and Olympus PEN-F: Premature comparisons
Ghosthunter
boo!
- Location
- London UK
- Name
- Andy
OK I have spent a fair bit of time with the Pen-F and here are my thoughts.
The version I played with was the black with 17mm lens. We also used the 12mm and 25mm. It is smaller than I thought it would be. I was expecting it to be the size of the GX8 but it looks slightly smaller than the E-M5ii. It looks awesome with any of the Oly primes and is a beautiful camera to behold. It's heavy too but feels really well built. It actually feels like a Leica M camera without the size. The dials feel very firm and well placed. Everything is to hand except for the front filter dial. This little dial lets you choose new filters to save in jpg only. The mono ones are superb! The defaults are great and like the colour filters are customisable. The evf is not as far to the left as I thought it would be so it is more than usable for the left eye user. The rear screen is superb, very crisp and high quality. This camera is ideal for street where the user is quite happy to shoot in jpg. If it's a choice between this or the 5ii then.....well good luck!
The version I played with was the black with 17mm lens. We also used the 12mm and 25mm. It is smaller than I thought it would be. I was expecting it to be the size of the GX8 but it looks slightly smaller than the E-M5ii. It looks awesome with any of the Oly primes and is a beautiful camera to behold. It's heavy too but feels really well built. It actually feels like a Leica M camera without the size. The dials feel very firm and well placed. Everything is to hand except for the front filter dial. This little dial lets you choose new filters to save in jpg only. The mono ones are superb! The defaults are great and like the colour filters are customisable. The evf is not as far to the left as I thought it would be so it is more than usable for the left eye user. The rear screen is superb, very crisp and high quality. This camera is ideal for street where the user is quite happy to shoot in jpg. If it's a choice between this or the 5ii then.....well good luck!
- Location
- Switzerland
- Name
- Matt
I'm really grateful for all the hands-on reviews that focus on handling and usability.
I'm a RAW shooter, but still think good JPEG engines are useful - you can have a look at possible results in advance I'll wait for a complete assessment including RAW quality anyway, but I don't think I need to worry - it'll bet at least as good overall as the 16MP sensors, and offer more resolution in good light. Anyhow, it's state of the art for 
- that's good enough for me I'm in no hurry to upgrade, though - I can easily wait until after Photokina in order to find out if I should hold out a little longer still. But I'm almost certain that I'll get the PEN-F eventually.
M.
I'm a RAW shooter, but still think good JPEG engines are useful - you can have a look at possible results in advance
I'll wait for a complete assessment including RAW quality anyway, but I don't think I need to worry - it'll bet at least as good overall as the 16MP sensors, and offer more resolution in good light. Anyhow, it's state of the art for - that's good enough for me I'm in no hurry to upgrade, though - I can easily wait until after Photokina in order to find out if I should hold out a little longer still. But I'm almost certain that I'll get the PEN-F eventually.M.
I really feel that I would have to sell either the EM1 or the EM5 II to feel ok with buying the F, and that might take a while. The M5 has been a wonderful SIJ camera and the M1 is so perfect with the 12-40. So I guess I'll just suffer. 
The funny part is all that B&W shooting during SIJ made the F seem more appealing.
The funny part is all that B&W shooting during SIJ made the F seem more appealing.
I have an E-P5/V-F4 combination and only shoot raw (apart from this month's sij challenge of course). Having said that, I could see myself getting a camera to focus on jpeg output, but that camera is surely a Fuji, that's what they do best isn't it? As it is, I don't really need a Pen F, as I can't see it really improving my output. I thought it might be good for perhaps those new to m43 or those looking to upgrade from a first generation E-P1/GF1 but note the interest of a lot of current users here.
Lightmancer
Legend
- Location
- Sunny Frimley
- Name
- Bill Palmer
The catch-22 for me is if I was still an Olympus user I would indeed be excited by this.
But.
I am not currently an Olympus user because it took them so long to get here...
But.
I am not currently an Olympus user because it took them so long to get here...
- Location
- Switzerland
- Name
- Matt
Ray: Olympus JPEGs are superb as well, and since you've got RAW conversion with access to the full array of presets in-camera, you can apply it later if you so choose. If you shoot RAW, the EVF shows you the effects of the chosen filter or effect without actually applying them. So if you like something better than your own results, it's simple to get it afterwards.
Sticking with Olympus will mean you don't have to build up another system. But of course, I fully get what you're saying. The lure of a Fuji as a spare time/travel camera has been tugging at my wallet for years now. In my mind, Fuji is the *other* mirrorless *system* (I know a lot of makers who produce amazing *cameras*), and their cameras are functional and very nice to look at. However, I've read what stratokaster has reported on mu43 - it might be more looks than substance, at least for the non-professional units.
Anyhow, I start to feel less apprehensive with my own RAW processing lately (which I should really call full post processing yet ...); I definitely get images that please me more than what the camera delivers, even though my technique is still crude. Could I live with SOOC JPEGs only? Obviously - I did just that for years. Do I want to go back to that? Not really. And the X-Trans RAW workflow seems to frustrate the hell out of a lot of sincere and professional shooters (but definitely not all of them - others swear by it!).
M.
Sticking with Olympus will mean you don't have to build up another system. But of course, I fully get what you're saying. The lure of a Fuji as a spare time/travel camera has been tugging at my wallet for years now. In my mind, Fuji is the *other* mirrorless *system* (I know a lot of makers who produce amazing *cameras*), and their cameras are functional and very nice to look at. However, I've read what stratokaster has reported on mu43 - it might be more looks than substance, at least for the non-professional units.
Anyhow, I start to feel less apprehensive with my own RAW processing lately (which I should really call full post processing yet ...); I definitely get images that please me more than what the camera delivers, even though my technique is still crude. Could I live with SOOC JPEGs only? Obviously - I did just that for years. Do I want to go back to that? Not really. And the X-Trans RAW workflow seems to frustrate the hell out of a lot of sincere and professional shooters (but definitely not all of them - others swear by it!).
M.
Ray Sachs
Legend
- Location
- Not too far from Philly
- Name
- you should be able to figure it out...
Not sure if this was for me or if there's another Ray here who's name I hadn't noticed.... I get how in-camera jpeg conversions work (rarely if ever used them when I had them) and I've owned countless cameras that would show you the mode you were using in the evf/rear screen. But I guess I'm just old-school and I always shot with the EVF/rear screen in a fairly neutral color mode, maybe slightly saturated to see it better. And I could still visualize the shot in B&W pretty well just from shooting B&W film for so long. And, of course, these days, 95% or more of my shooting is with an OVF where I don't have that option anyway.
But right or wrong or just my preference, I don't like shooting jpegs - I've certainly done it enough over the years but I do like to process my shots (have since I was a kid in a darkroom in the very early 1970's) and the raw file gives you the most data to work with. Some jpegs seem to hold more information and DR than others and will do in a pinch as a starting point for processing, but given the choice I always choose raw and greatly prefer processing on a Mac than in the camera. But for me, having a prominent feature like the front dial on this camera that's ONLY useful for selecting jpeg modes and filters, and that cannot be re-assigned to something I'd actually use, makes it a camera I wouldn't buy. That dial looks like the shutter speed controls of old (which I believe it was on the original Pen-F), so it hit's that nostalgic "looks" button, but if it doesn't serve a purpose for me, I'd eventually only find it irritating. The shutter speed and ISO dials on my DF are also controls I don't use much, since I'm almost always shooting in aperture priority mode with auto-ISO, but occasionally I do like to control those things manually and I like having that sort of control layout rather than a menu-based one - so I don't count those controls as a total loss - just as mostly irrelevant.
I moved away from Olympus (and Fuji) about a year and a half ago, so I'm way past the point of buying Olympus stuff so I don't have to build up another system - I've long since done it. At this point, buying into Olympus again would mean building up another system! And I'm just not tempted to move away from what I've got. Someday maybe, but probably not anytime soon. Still, I love checking out what's happening in the m43 and Fuji and Sony worlds just out of interest and because I spent plenty of time with those systems. And I never say never, maybe someday I'll want to go back in one or more of those directions...
-Ray
