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Discussion in 'Micro Four Thirds Forum' started by Yeats, Nov 14, 2013.
while i know this camera has a lot to offer, i personally feel no incentive to upgrade my epl5 unless i can obtain better low light/high iso performance at 32-6400. i say that despite cringing whenever i click that LOUD epl5 shutter...maybe i should reconsider. ):
Panasonic seems to got so many things right with this camera and has basically delivered exactly what you would expect a spiritual successor to the GF1 with built-in viewfinder would be. Showing how much personal preferences matter however, when I got to handle a GX7 it just didn't feel right to me, with one of my main issues being the totally different tactile feel and the placement of the rear and upper control dials. My other mistake was to use the Olympus VF-4 viewfinder before trying out the GX7. That has basically ruined every other electronic viewfinder for me.
I just bought the Voigtlander 17.5mm f/0.95 and was toying with the idea of buying a m43 camera to go with it. I'm kind of tempted by the GX7.
I'm tempted by way too many cameras! And the GX7 is one of them. I'd like it in black though, which is still nowhere to be found in the US.
That's been my feeling about most Panasonic m43 bodies since the GF1, but I actually like the GX7 a lot. After shooting with it and the EP5 for a while I thought the GX7 got it just right and I was actually feeling like it was the most enjoyable m43 body I'd yet handled. I had it at the top of the pack. Then the EM1 showed up and it appealed to me more in almost every way but size. The poor GX7 was the best of the pack for only about a month before it got knocked off its perch. And, yeah, the VF4 based EVF in the EM1 had a lot to do with that - it's pretty sublime.
And even though I DO like the controls and dials on the GX7 a lot, I like the ones on the EM1 that much more. One odd little detail that I really loved about the GX7 though is the AEL button - something about the location of that button just fell so naturally under my thumb on that camera that I was able to use it quickly and intuitively from the moment I picked it up, even with my eye at the finder - never had to feel around for it or pull my head back and look for it. But other than that, the GX7 raised the stakes only to be leapfrogged (IMO of course) so shortly after.
I have a feeling that the EM-1 is going to be upstaged by the upcoming Sony A7/A7r. Even though the A7 is full frame, they're still hitting the same non-DSLR serious compact enthusiast crowd. The only thing the A7 doesn't have is a retro look.
I see the A7 as a whole different category and will appeal to a different set of folks. M43 has always been about small size and good ENOUGH IQ and when I say small size, I'm not just talking about the bodies, where the A7 is in the same range as the larger m43 bodies. But in terms of lenses, I think A7 lenses beyond primes in the middle focal lengths (maybe 28-55) are gonna be BIG. The EM1 will never compete with the RX1 on image quality, but it competes really well with any of the other m43 and APS cameras but it's usability, performance, etc, is really pretty off the charts. Like a good Nikon or Canon DSLR in a much much smaller body.
If you're after the ultimate in IQ and shallow DOF, you're already probably not looking at m43. I get the appeal of full frame - I have an RX1 and it's my favorite camera. But a full frame SYSTEM is another question, even with a body as small as the A7. I almost can't even compare the EM1 to the A7 because, while there's surely some overlap, I think they mostly appeal to different audiences or some people who might be interested in both...
GX7 grip felt awkward initially coming from all Oly series of m43 cameras/nex, but I get used to it and like it a lot w/ silent e-shutter. In a similar setting birds noticed my e-m5 shutter noise vs gx7 is unnoticed... Focus peaking is a nice addition for my use also... I like nex-6/gx7 body style, so my nose/face don't activate the touchscreen like e-m5...
E-M1 has additional tracking and better evf, but its price is on the higher side eg you can get comparable IQ w/ gx7 for 800-850 brand new and nex-6/e-m5 are even cheaper...
New Sony's are also getting attention from both Canon and Nikon users. FM Canon site has 48 pages of A7/A7R discussions, samples, and praises... Nikon 800 users are even buying Sony for smaller body and better mf capabilities... Here is one from Korea replacing his D800:
A7R is med format camera in a pocket... DP series are close, but no high iso and no fast lenses to compensate that...
ray i think alot of folks, myself included, may be looking at the a7/r as the long sought after holy grail digital back for their rf lenses rather than as a 'system' camera. my personal plan is supplanting my apsc with the sony, and keeping m4/3 as a complement for what it does best, imo discreet street shooting and telephoto.
Oh yeah, I fully get that. And I know a lot of people were attracted to m43 (and then Nex and the Ricoh GXR m-mount module, and the Fuji X system) as a good system for using legacy glass. I was too except that I'm more of a wide angle shooter than a medium or long lens shooter and so the wide options are really limited with a crop sensor body. So I too was sort of initially excited by the A7 for the possibility of using wider RF lenses and maintaining their wide FOV, but then disappointed to see how well many of these wider lenses don't work with these sensors/micro-lenses etc. And realistically, I only like using MF lenses for a relatively small part of my shooting anyway - I'm never likely to buy into a system that doesn't offer a decent selection of native glass that interests me...
But I think the larger point is that folks interested in adapting these systems to manual focus lenses is a very VERY small part of the overall market for them. And has damn little impact on whether a camera is gonna be a success or a failure on the market. But I get that on an individual basis, the system could be perfect for some folks... But in terms of it "upstaging" the EM1, I think it's too much apples and oranges to really make that statement...
Japanese prices for A7 is $1350, A7R is $1950... Too bad the menus are in Japanese...
Interesting comparison at flickr:
Nice comparison. Someone has lots of time in his/her hands!
Awesome work, Serhan. Thank you. Wow... those comparisons are amazing.
I'm beginning to have more interest in the A7 and in the GM1.
Lenses for A7 are still going to be the key element for me... time will sort this all out, of course, as it always does.
I'm sure I will maintain a presence in m4/3 for quite some time, because the range of bodies is so great and I have so many lenses in the system. I'm flying through m4/3 bodies like there's no tomorrow, but fortunately, the lenses are stable.
But I can see paring down the m4/3 kit to some essential elements (a couple of bodies and 6-7 lenses), focusing on small and lightweight... and having an A7 kit in addition... perhaps. We shall see.
It is not my work... I only saw the links in another post.
Here is some Kai fun, e-m1 vs gx7:
I've had an interesting (probably only to me) evolution on this one. I initially got loaners of the EP5 and GX7 and shot with a both a while. I really liked the GX7 a LOT, more than the EP5, and waaaay more than any Panasonic m43 body since the GF1 (not that I'd tried them all, but I tried several and owned a couple, one only briefly). But I didn't feel any need to upgrade from my EM5, so as much as I liked the GX7, I didn't have any plans to buy one. Then I got an EM1 to try and Oh My God (to quote your average teenage girl) I was blown away by it. No one thing, but all of the parts just worked together perfectly. I quickly (and perhaps stupidly) sold my EM5, fully intending to buy the EM1. But over time, as incredibly GOOD as the EM1 is, it just felt like more camera than I wanted, particularly for the role that m43 plays for me these days. If it was going to be my only or even primary camera, I don't have any doubt that I would have bought the EM1. But I couldn't get the thought out of my mind that I actually enjoyed shooting with the GX7 more when I had it. So I ordered a GX7, set it up and shot back to back with the EM1 for just a couple of days. And damned if I didn't decide to keep the GX7 and return the EM1 when it's loan period is up.
It's not that I think the GX7 is a "better" camera - I don't. In many ways I'd say the EM1 is. But not in ways that really matter to me enough to prefer it. On the EM1's side, the EVF is better, but it's more than good enough on the GX7. The IBIS is definitely better on the EM1, but it's good enough on the GX7 - the only lens I own that I really prefer the EM1's IBIS is the Olympus 75-300 where having IBIS work prior to the shot is really nice. But I don't use that lens enough to base a buying decision on that. I like the idea of weather sealing, but I'm not one to go shoot in the pouring rain, so this really isn't an issue for me. Similarly with AF tracking - I like the idea that I could do it, but I've never really done the kind of shooting that this matters for and I seriously doubt I'm gonna start now... I absolutely LOVE the way the eye-detector automatically shuts off on the EM1 when you flip up the rear screen (eliminating the camera's mistaking the proximity of my belly for an eye), but the GX7 works well enough and it's really easy to just flip the EVF up a bit to eliminate the problem for extended sessions of shooting from the hip...
But the GX7 just feels right to me. The size/weight/grip just feels more right in my hand even though the EM1 is marginally better with longer lenses. The controls aren't quite as extensive as on the EM1, but there are MORE than enough, it's easily customized, and everything just seems to be in the right place. I really love the silent electronic shutter for many applications as well. And the way you can look through the EVF with your eye and move your finger or thumb around on the screen to move the AF point is absolutely ingenious. Also, there isn't the risk of purple blobs with the 7-14 and no need to customize the rear of the 7-14 to take a gel filter (which I was contemplating with the EM1).
Oh yeah, the EM1 also costs roughly half again as much. I'll always take the more expensive option if I have a solid reason to prefer it (ie, I bought the Nikon A over the less expensive Ricoh GR because of a couple of features that were huge for me). But I found myself preferring the GX7 even if it's not quite the camera the EM1 is in some ways. For me, it just felt like the better option at a pretty organic level... So here's someone who's been firmly in the Olympus camp for quite a while choosing a Panasonic body over the latest Olympus... Shocking! At least to me...
Dammit. I really want one. Especially since I already have the Voigtlander 17.5mm f/0.95 which has turned out to be a great lens. I'm really wanting an m43 body to use it on.
Which reminds me, I also like the focus peaking on the GX7 more than the EM1. It has two levels and a choice of colors whereas the EM1 just has an on and off setting.
Very interested in the new Panny... and on looking at the comparisons, a complete and total loss of interest in the Sony RX10. Chunky.
We have so many options w/ m43 now at nearly same IQ/af speed, Oly e-pm2/e-pl5/e-p5/e-m5/e-m1 and Panasonic gm1/gx7/gh3. The difference is handling, price, and the a few spec changes between them like the newer released cameras has peaking, 1/8000sec shutter, etc. So I think any of these cameras is an excellent choice...