1. Reminder: Please user our affiliate links to get to your favorite stores for holiday shopping!

So I sold my M7 and Summicron 50, now what?

Discussion in 'Leica M Forum' started by Juergen, Jul 30, 2012.

  1. Juergen

    Juergen SC Rookie

    13
    Jul 30, 2012
    Netherlands
    Juergen
    Hi guys, my first thread here but I guess the title says it all. This week -after having owned them for many years- I sold my Leica M7 and Summicron 50 mm lens. My primary reason for doing so is that for the past year, I hardly ever used them anymore in this digital age. For me the time has finally come to say goodbye to film. It is not that I don't like the medium any longer, It's just that I don't see myself doing lots of darkroom work anymore within two or three years from now.

    Where I live, it's getting harder and harder to acquire the films and chemicals I need and this will only get harder in years to come. I figured I'd still get some good money by selling it now instead of waiting for another few years and letting it collect dust. At least now I made one person really happy and I have some money to spend on a new camera.

    I digital Leica is not an option for me, they're far too expensive IMHO, even the new X2. A DSLR or mirrorless system are no real options either, now that I have sold the M7, I am looking for something even more compact. Since I am used to compacts (having owned a Leica C2 and Olympus MJU II), I am looking for something similar. My main concerns when choosing a new camera are;

    * excellent build quality
    * excellent optics and IQ, preferably a non-zoom wide-angle to normal lens (28mm to about 50mm in terms of 35mm lenses).
    * Largest possible sensor
    * about 1000 USD at most

    I have already narrowed my choices down to four compacts;

    Fuji X10
    Fuji X100
    Sony RX 100
    Ricoh GRD IV

    What would be a wise choice? I remember visiting the Photokina in 2006 and being really impressed with the first Ricoh GRD so the GRD IV is really tempting.

    Juergen
     
  2. Andrewteee

    Andrewteee SC All-Pro

    Jul 8, 2010
    The Ricoh GRD4 is very nice, but of course a different focal length than 50mms. The Fuji X100 will be closest to using an optical VF. The RX-100 looks very impressive.

    Hard choices.
     
  3. Amin Sabet

    Amin Sabet Administrator

    Jul 3, 2010
    Hi Juergen, all four of those are excellent choices. Based on your listed four primary concerns, the obvious choice is the Fuji X100 because it has the biggest sensor, excellent build, excellent optics and IQ, and a fixed focal length lens in the middle of your desired focal length range.

    Here's how I would break it down according to your criteria

    * excellent build quality

    I haven't handled the Sony, but I imagine that all four cameras meet this criteria without difficulty

    * excellent optics and IQ, preferably a non-zoom wide-angle to normal lens (28mm to about 50mm in terms of 35mm lenses).

    The GRD and X100 both have terrific prime lenses. The X100 has better sensor IQ.

    * Largest possible sensor

    X100 > RX100 > X10 > GRD

    * about 1000 USD at most

    This is the only category where the X100 loses, only barely sneaking in below your price threshold with the current rebate.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. retow

    retow SC All-Pro

    Jul 24, 2010
    From the camera's listed, only the X100 offers excellent optics and IQ on an absolute scale. On their relative scales, all the others on your list are great. However, as far as small cameras are concerned, Sony just changed the rules of the game with the RX100's huge sensor relative to its body size. This is why I'd not dump my money on an otherwise excellent Ricoh GRDIV. A GRDIII can be had for a bargain and is as good as the IV. Ignoring the USD1000 limit, I'd put the Fuji X100 and the Sony RX100 into my bag. Together, they tick all of your boxes.
     
  5. Archiver

    Archiver SC Top Veteran

    618
    Jul 11, 2010
    Melbourne, Australia
    The 50mm Summicron on the M7 gives you some really nice shallow depth of field, which the smaller sensor cameras will not be able to deliver. Also, the GRD IV is a 28mm equivalent, so if you want something longer and with less depth of field, the Fuji X100 is really your best choice from the options you gave.

    The X10 is a wonderful little camera - I was shooting with it today and appreciating how nice it can be. But a 50mm Summicron it's not, and it won't come anywhere near it. I don't have a RX-100 so I can't make any comments from experience. The X100 is the most Leica-like of the lot, and will produce the best image quality from what I can see. The image quality of the X100 is almost legendary!
     
  6. Ghosthunter

    Ghosthunter boo!

    Sep 8, 2010
    London UK
    Andy
    If you want the same focal length as your Leica then the X10 and RX100 are the only 2 cameras that will give you that. The X100 has a 23mm fixed lens which calculates to 34.5mm on film/full frame so is a little wider but with the APS-C sized sensor and f2 lens you can get decent depth of field plus the IQ is pretty stunning! I think it's more difficult to get decent DOF with the RX100 but I have only played with it and it did nothing for me although the IQ looks very good. The X10 is a nice camera but I found exposure to be a little odd at times.
     
  7. bilzmale

    bilzmale Super Moderator Emeritus

    Jul 17, 2010
    Perth, Western Australia
    Bill Shinnick
    Hello and welcome Juergen - all nice cameras (I own two of them) so good luck with your choice.
     
  8. Ernie

    Ernie SC Rookie

    18
    Mar 29, 2012
    Hi Jürgen,

    I'd like to add a word of "warning." With your background, after years of using a relatively high end camera and lens, going for a small compact camera is not likely to work. I'll give you six months, after which you'll find yourself googling for something better, and trading that (serious or not) compact for something more versatile, probably a proper digital system camera. Been there, done that. ;)

    As for the choices presented, of course it's a matter of taste and each of our personal preferences but, I for one wouldn't pick any of those, partly for the reason mentioned above. On the other hand, if those were the only cameras left in the world, I'd probably pick the Fuji X100.

    So, I'd like to add a couple of new alternatives to your list, at least to check out before you buy anything.
    Ricoh GXR
    Sigma DP2 Merrill

    Reasons being the specs you described above. GXR is one of the nicest "serious compacts" in design, but the user interface is clearly being designed by photographers, or at least engineers who actually shoot photos in their free time. Plus, it's actually a system camera, so when the inevitable urge to expand your digital camera system hits, you are all set. Not only do you got the 28mm and 50mm equivalents to choose from, with APS-C sensors, you also have the option to go for the Leica M lenses, if your old love will start showing signs of heating up again. You'll also get the Leica-esque sensor with no low-pass filter, albeit a Sony one, which would make it close to the M8, sort of. You'll also have the option of using an electronic viewfinder, and not just the lcd screen in the back of the camera.

    Sigma DP2 Merrill, on the other hand, is another very interesting pocket size compact camera. It's the only compact camera with a Foveon sensor. What's special about the sensor is a story a bit too long to be repeated here, but go and google it if necessary. It has a couple of principles common with the Fuji sensor, but it's not the same. Suffice to say it's one of the compacts which is capable of doing excellent IQ, no low-pass filter, no moire, and very nice film-like pictures. If it had a built-in EVF, it would be the ultimate fixed lens compact, going above the Fuji X100, at least in my list. You can of course add an optical finder, too, or use a loupe, like the Zaguto, Seagull, Hoodman etc.

    Oh and if you're interested in the smaller Fuji X10, I'd recommed that you take a look at the blog of one of your fellow countryman, namely Frank Doorhof. He has been blogging about his experiences with it, even about studio shoots with it. :)
    http://www.frankdoorhof.com/site/. com
     
  9. Juergen

    Juergen SC Rookie

    13
    Jul 30, 2012
    Netherlands
    Juergen
    Thanks Ernie and everyone else for your replies so far. Ernie, I will definitely look up the Sigma and GXR. And you have point, going back from such a high-end system like the Leica M could prove to be a mistake. On the other hand, there has been many a moment in the past where I was quite happy shooting a small film compact instead of the Leica (which still is a heavier and larger camera inspite of what everyone says. A Leica M is not pocketable).

    Whatever it's going to be, it will be a trade-off between IQ and size. As for now size is more important to me because it's also a fact that I sometimes just didn't take my Leica with me for it was still too large and heavy for the situation. And since I have always had a soft spot for those small compact with fast lenses, buying one just fells like the right thing to do now. I'll let you guys know as soon as I've made up my mind.
     
  10. Andrewteee

    Andrewteee SC All-Pro

    Jul 8, 2010
    DP2-M info and pictures are hard to find, but they are starting to trickle in. It remains to be seen if that camera improves on previous DP2 weaknesses, but if they do it is a camera to be reckoned with. It's expensive though at $1000 out of the gate.

    I'd throw the Olympus E-M5 into the mix too.
     
  11. Ernie

    Ernie SC Rookie

    18
    Mar 29, 2012
    Hard to find? Really? Have you tried googling lately? I've seen both pictures and videos. One of the most obvious places to go for pretty pictures would be Sigma Cameras Overview | SigmaPhoto.com of course. There is also a dedicated site for the DP2 model(s), albeit a flash site, unfortunately.

    I'm not a Sigma advocate but, it does meet the given specs, more so than E-M5. After all, it's a compact camera with the size and looks of a compact camera and yet, it has an 1.5 crop factor Foveon sensor. If I was looking for a high end compact camera, I'd most certainly check it out. THe only major downside with the DP series, as well as with most serious compacts, ftm, is the lack of proper EVF. It doesn't have to be a fancy rangefinder or even a hybrid, just an external EVF or a built-in one, like in Sony NEX-7. Suppose it could also use an AMOLED screen á la Samsung but here again, most other serious compacts don't do much better. Not too many CSC's deliver, either.

    BTW, the DP1 Merrill is otherwise the same, but it has a wider angle lens, namely 19mm.
     
  12. Juergen

    Juergen SC Rookie

    13
    Jul 30, 2012
    Netherlands
    Juergen
    Just to let you guys know; after some hard deliberations, I finally took a decision and bought the Ricoh GRD IV. Now I fully realize that this camera is not going to give me the IQ of my Leica M7 and Summicron 50, it won't even come close. On the other hand, is this really what I was after to begin with? The answer to that question is no. Even with the Leica I hardly ever printed anything larger than 5x7. Yet because of the fact that the Leica was still pretty heavy and relatively large, there have been moments in the past where I didn't take the Leica with me. So for me it was always going to be a trade-off between IQ and size/weight. Since I have always admired the GRD design and philosophy behind it, I have decided to take the plunge and now I can't wait for it to arrive in the mail :smile:
     
  13. Brian

    Brian SC Top Veteran

    638
    Jul 7, 2010


    Was there any obvious reason to be so rude? Someone disagreed with you? You had a difference of opinions?

    Just the Growth Curve of any forum.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. Ernie

    Ernie SC Rookie

    18
    Mar 29, 2012
    Was there any obvious reason to assume that was intended to be rude? Someone picked a fight with with you? You had a difference of opinions?

    With written words online, we cannot hear the tone of voice, nor can we see the body language, so unfortunately there is plenty of room for misinterpretations, ones that hardly ever take place in the real world discussions. This is important to remember in intenational forums like this one, where the participants come from various cultural and lingual backgrounds. However, ever since the dawn of online forums and social media, there have been many good guidelines, one of the oldest and best being "always assume good intentions first." Keeping this particular old guideline in mind will steer you clear of many unnecessary conflicts and unnecessary misunderstandings, Brian. It would have done so in this case, too.

    In other words, I hope you read my previous post in its entirety, not just the first two sentences. Assume good intentions first, and when in doubt, feel free to PM me first. There was nothing rude in that post, and at least none intended. Furthermore, it did not involve you to begin with, and apparently Andrewteee hasn't found the post rude. Had he told me it did, I would have apologized and settled the misunderstanding with him directly.
     
  15. Ernie

    Ernie SC Rookie

    18
    Mar 29, 2012
    Speaking of rude, I think all of my posts here so far have been more or less polite and intended to be helpful, even though no one even bothered to say welcome when I joined this forum and posted my first message, not so long ago. It simply got ignored.
    Oh well, maybe that was not rude, maybe that was just the style or the "Growth Curve" of this particular forum.
    /OT
     
  16. Nuskyn

    Nuskyn SC Veteran

    387
    Jul 8, 2011
    @Gelderland - the Netherlands
    Jeroen
    We missed your story in "Forum: Welcomes and Introductions" maybe that's the reason you got ignored....
     
  17. Ernie

    Ernie SC Rookie

    18
    Mar 29, 2012
    Well, it indeed wasn't in the introductions section and it wasn't a big deal, anyway. But the point was that, the post did have a question, if ever so 'dumb' from the non-newbies POV, but the question was ignored. Again, no biggie, but it didn't give a particularly good first impression from this particular forum, or that particular part of it.

    The point being that sometimes we're a bit too quick to see rude behaviour, even though there really is no real reason for it.
     
  18. Brian

    Brian SC Top Veteran

    638
    Jul 7, 2010
    Yes, rude. Had you posted some links to just give information rather than include statements like "Hard to find? Really? Have you tried googling lately?" it would not appear to be rude. Posts directed at another member asking "tried googling lately?" are belittling of other's efforts to find the information. "Tried Googling Lately?" sounds like something that would come out of a teen-age computer geek. I could answer, "It's been a while since I used HOTBOT, but I still use Google."

    As far as picking fights, I'm tired of reading posts that are aimed at other members rather than just containing the useful information.

    a lot of good members are getting "run off" of the forum as a result.
     
  19. Lightmancer

    Lightmancer Super Moderator

    Aug 13, 2011
    Sunny Frimley
    Bill Palmer
    PEACE, PEOPLE. PLEASE TAKE A MOMENT FOR A DEEP BREATH OR TWO. CONFLICT RESOLVES NOTHING.

    THANK YOU KINDLY.

    Sent from another Galaxy
     
  20. Luke

    Luke Super Moderator

    Nov 11, 2011
    Milwaukee, WI USA
    Luke
    This is a good place to post a link to the Terms of Service and Site Rules that we all agreed to when we joined. I'm pretty sure many of us, just clicked a box and moved on.

    https://www.photographerslounge.org/f17/site-rules-terms-service-4/

    I'm pretty sure Ernie didn't mean any malice in his post after reading beyond the first couple lines. But those first couple lines can really make the hair stand up on people's backs. That's why it is right there in rule #2.

    And Brian meant well pointing out a flaw, but sometimes that just stirs up the pot. It's better yet to let a moderator know.....that's why we're paid the big bucks :rolleyes:

    And then it turns into something no one really wants to be a part of. Brian helps out a lot by sharing his knowledge freely and that likely factored into his response. When you have knowledge or links (even if you used Google to get them), feel free to share them without implying the OP doesn't know how to search.

    The community is all about sharing. Share nice. Use your mods. Read the rules. Treat others as you would like to be treated.:grouphug:
     
    • Like Like x 2