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Sony Breaks New Ground with A7 / A7R Announcement

Discussion in 'Open Gear Talk' started by Amin Sabet, Oct 16, 2013.

  1. Amin Sabet

    Amin Sabet Administrator

    Jul 3, 2010
    Sony_a7_1008113.


    Sony has now officially announced the A7 and A7R. These are the first two 35mm full frame, mirrorless interchangeable lens cameras outside of Leica M, and they are the most compact full frame digital cameras to date by a good margin.

    A7R:
    36MP sensor with no AA filter
    Contrast-detect only autofocus
    Body-only for $2299 (no kit lens option)

    A7:
    24MP sensor with an AA filter
    On-chip phase detection autofocus
    Body-only for $1699 or with 28-70 f/3.5-5.6 OSS lens for $1999


    Expected availability for both cameras: December, 2013.

    Existing E mount lenses will function on these new cameras but will not illuminate the entire sensor. The following new FE lenses have been announced:

    • 35mm F2.8 Carl Zeiss - $799 - Expected December 2013
    • 55mm F1.8 Carl Zeiss - $999 - Expected January 2014
    • 24-70mm F4 Carl Zeiss OSS - $1199 - Expected February 2014
    • 70-200mm F4 Sony G OSS - Pricing and availability not yet announced

    Sony Australia launch video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfSrs...&feature=share


    Full coverage at 1001 Noisy Cameras
     
    • Like Like x 3
  2. Ray Sachs

    Ray Sachs SC Legend

    Sep 21, 2010
    Not too far from Philly
    you should be able to figure it out...
    I think you have the prices reversed Amin... These look great - really really exciting stuff...

    -Ray
     
  3. wt21

    wt21 SC Hall of Famer

    Aug 15, 2010
    I like the direction and that someone has finally done FF mirrorless, though this is outside of my budget. Would love to see how/if Fuji responds, and also Canon's FF mirrorless (in 2018, lol).
     
  4. Amin Sabet

    Amin Sabet Administrator

    Jul 3, 2010
    Thanks, now fixed.
     
  5. pictor

    pictor SC All-Pro

    Jul 14, 2010
  6. rogerc

    rogerc SC Regular

    57
    May 16, 2013
    The Hexagonal.
    Ming Thein has not seen the obvious, hence why I don't think his thoughts are rational enough.

    The new A7/r cameras are not a threat to the RX1/r because, quite simply, there is no interchangeable lens (other than maybe the Sigma 35mm 1.4) that matches the Sonnar in the RX1. Also, no camera that attempts the same performance of the RX1's combiation (sensor + lens) will ever be as small, or have the same price point (If you thought the 35mm Summicron or the 35mm f2 Biogon could match the Sonnar, you thought wrong - look online for the comparisons)

    Ming Thein has indirectly hinted at joining the opinion poll of people who think the A mount will die soon as he expresses that the a99 is undermined with the new products. I am certain when I say that people that use SLRs, will keep on using SLRs if that's what floats their boat. I know many who like SLRs and would need serious persuasion to change form factor.

    Worth noting too is that 35mm 2.8 is a lens that is not launched thinking that f2 is the only difference between an s7/r combo and the RX1. It is launched with a 2.8 aperture because of the complexity and cost of building a faster lens with great optical performance and compact size at a low price point. If Sony would have produced an f2 lens, it could have not only lived under the shadow of the RX1's lens, but it would have also cost much more and been larger. And a more expensive lens would have been detrimental for this system. This is because a higher price point would make it easier for people to buy MF lenses from many mounts and adapt those to the a7/r refusing to pay, say $1600 for an f2 35mm. This 35mm 2.8 is actually expensive considering the slow aperture, but if it performs excellently, it will have that along with AF to make it a more compelling choice for $800. We are talking about Zeiss here, and Zeiss is never cheap to begin with so 2.8 at $800 is cheaper than the ZM variant.

    There are many more things to consider for a mirrorless FF camera than copying Fuji. If Sony was looking to emulate others, the RX1 wouldn't have been here to begin with.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. drd1135

    drd1135 SC Hall of Famer

    Jul 13, 2011
    Southwest Virginia
    Steve
    I hadn't considered the processing issues with the 36 MP sensor. I'm just not used to thinking that way. This reinforces the notion that we may have to start taking seriously the notion of "I just don't need that".
     
    • Like Like x 2
  8. Armanius

    Armanius Bring Jack back!

    Jan 11, 2011
    Houston, Texas
    Jack
    Thanks for the links Serhan. You must be working for Sony, just admit it! ;)

    As for the crop in Brian Smith's photo of the woman, that's when it's time to push the clarity slider in LR way to the left!! Which is a good problem to have!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. retow

    retow SC All-Pro

    Jul 24, 2010
    Buy shares in skin smoothing software companies. Monster resolution sensors are coming:eek:
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. serhan

    serhan SC All-Pro

    May 7, 2011
    NYC
    SAR says 54MP next year:) A7R is only 15.5MP apsc crop, nex-6 equivalent. We will have soon nex-7 24MP equivalent or even RX100 20MP equivalent...

     
  11. Luke

    Luke Super Moderator

    Nov 11, 2011
    Milwaukee, WI USA
    Luke
    And I'm already worrying about going from 16MP to 24MP for storage issues. Jeepers!
     
    • Like Like x 2
  12. Stan

    Stan SC Regular

    164
    Apr 19, 2013
    California
    Stan
    Exciting stuff! I applaud Sony for being bold with their camera designs. I hope they follow through with lenses to match the quality of the sensor. I assume an M adapter is on the way so that rangefinder refugees can use their lenses at their intended focal lengths.
     
  13. Stan

    Stan SC Regular

    164
    Apr 19, 2013
    California
    Stan
    I thought the same thing. 36MP looks staggering on paper, but then when I think about how I'd actually process and use the files... I don't make giant prints, and even if the acuity, micro contrast, and detail increases are noticeable, when does that actually impact the power of the final image? I have a 22MP 5D3 and use 16MP m43 bodies. They are both detailed enough for my purposes.

    That said, the medium format/large format niche may be interested in the 7r when the lens library fills out.
     
  14. serhan

    serhan SC All-Pro

    May 7, 2011
    NYC
  15. Ray Sachs

    Ray Sachs SC Legend

    Sep 21, 2010
    Not too far from Philly
    you should be able to figure it out...
    From what I've read Stan, it appears that these cameras use the same lens mount as the Nex bodies, so the many adapters that have been developed for the Nex line should all work with these...

    I'm not one who's used many manual focus lenses on AF bodies, but that has been largely due to the crop factors, which create nothing but problems for wide angle shooters. But that's a non-issue with a full frame body, so unless and until Sony creates some good wide primes, I'll be real interested to see how some of the wide (and even ultra wide) rangefinder lenses (mostly Voitlander for good lenses at relatively reasonable prices) work with these sensors. I've already seen some cautionary tales, but it'll take a while for the truth to shake out. There's a very good chance I wait this one out until Sony's lens lineup fills out well beyond the initially announced lenses (none of which are of interest to me) or until others join Sony in the full frame mirrorless ring. But I find it hard to believe I won't own a mostly full frame system at some point in the coming years. Probably stay with the smaller m43 for telephoto and with APS for more DOF for street, but I can see going full frame for all other wide to neutral focal lengths as the lenses appear.

    -Ray
     
  16. drd1135

    drd1135 SC Hall of Famer

    Jul 13, 2011
    Southwest Virginia
    Steve
    Pixel peeping takes on a new meaning when the 100% crop is itself an interesting image.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. Stan

    Stan SC Regular

    164
    Apr 19, 2013
    California
    Stan
    I see! I am not familiar with the NEX mount -- I saw the TCS video, and they had adapters already, showing up a Canon EF to NEX mount with AF. Good stuff! I can see this as being a major plus for the format, primarily because there is no crop factor. FF mirrorless is going to be exciting, and I look forward to how this all shakes out. In the long run, it's a winner.

    For myself, I find myself still in the M43 camp as the general system (photo and video), and having FF for when I want awesome IQ. I may end up with a couple of sharp primes on FF, and the rest of the setup M43. The question now is to stay with 5D3 or jump ship at some point. My FF setup is 5D3 + 35L + 85/1.8. Great one-two punch. I borrow/rent as needed.
     
  18. Andrewteee

    Andrewteee SC All-Pro

    Jul 8, 2010
    Whenever I'm out the mirrorless camera that I see the most of is the NEX. Therefore, I'd expect the new Sony FF cameras to do well. It is also interesting how many new lenses from third parties were announced along with the new Sonys. They were obviously working with them early on.
     
  19. Armanius

    Armanius Bring Jack back!

    Jan 11, 2011
    Houston, Texas
    Jack
    I'm thinking along the same lines -- more or less. Sony FE for wide to normal. And M4/3 for normal to long (as well as zoom lenses).

    Subject to whatever Fuji may be coming out with!!