Sony RX1-R

Discussion in 'Sony RX1 Forum' started by xdayv, Jun 27, 2013.

  1. xdayv

    xdayv SC Veteran

    257
    Mar 22, 2013
    Tacloban City, Philippines
    Dave
    Now that is has been announced, will this be a difficult choice to choose between this and the RX1? (Considering the price is the same). Interested to know your thoughts...
     
  2. Ghosthunter

    Ghosthunter boo!

    Sep 8, 2010
    London UK
    Andy
    Strewth....how sharp is this thing going to be!!!
     
  3. Livnius

    Livnius SC Veteran

    475
    Jun 3, 2012
    Melbourne. Australia
    Joe
    The guys at Imagine Resource reckon the difference is quite noticeable, surprisingly noticeable in fact...thats quite something given the RX1 was crazy sharp anyway.
    Got some handy comparison shots too. Interestingly, same price !



    Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX1R Camera - Hands-On Preview
     
  4. Ghosthunter

    Ghosthunter boo!

    Sep 8, 2010
    London UK
    Andy
    Wow!! Those images do look pretty amazing compared to the current RX-1. So same price, sharper images......why would anyone buy the std RX-1???
     
  5. Livnius

    Livnius SC Veteran

    475
    Jun 3, 2012
    Melbourne. Australia
    Joe
    If buying new yeah for sure...the 'R' looks like a great option. Big plus however could be for people being used, maybe a little price drop on the RX1 is on the cards ?
     
  6. retow

    retow SC All-Pro

    Jul 24, 2010
    The new one will be more prone to moire and artefacts, I ecpect. For real smooth sharpness, you know my answer:biggrin: Sigma DP Merrill.
     
  7. Ghosthunter

    Ghosthunter boo!

    Sep 8, 2010
    London UK
    Andy
    You know it bruv!! :biggrin: Nothing...and I mean NOTHING can beat the DP's for detail except the Nikon D800E. :th_salute:
     
  8. christilou

    christilou SC Hall of Famer

    Jul 13, 2010
    Sunny Frimley
    I find mine quite sharp enough, given that I mostly smooth the edges off everything LOL! Would be seriously tempted though if I had a trip which meant I would mostly be shooting landscapes....... would've been nice to get a 50mm lens just to shake things up a bit.
     
  9. Ray Sachs

    Ray Sachs SC Legend

    Sep 21, 2010
    Not too far from Philly
    you should be able to figure it out...
    I wouldn't be inclined based on sharpness alone anyway per Christina's explanation - I think we share a fairly related processing disease even if we're not going for quite the same end result. But even if I was so inclined, I'd want to see some raw comparisons before I'd react too strongly one way or the other. Those IR comparisons were evidently based on jpegs and automatic jpeg NR was suspect in some of the softening of the vegetation in one of those shots and it seems like the same thing COULD be at work in some of the other images as well. I don't doubt that the new one should be sharper via removal of the AA filter, but whether the differences are as pronounced as those seen in a couple of those samples seem questionable. If they hold up with similar processing of comparable raw files, that'll be a different story. But even if you're a sharpness junkie, I'd hold fire based on just jpeg comparison.

    -Ray
     
  10. Amin Sabet

    Amin Sabet Administrator

    Jul 3, 2010
    With any pair of cameras that differ in AA filter alone, a bit of extra sharpening for the AA filter variety usually makes the differences much less than they seem when given equal sharpening. I've seen this for the D800/E and K5 II/s.

    Here's an example of 100% crops from the IR JPEG samples:

    9149481165_118f5c0a9f_o.


    Pretty noticeable difference, right? Now the same exact crops after slight sharpening of the RX1 crop:

    9149481037_1f264df51b_o.


    Not so different anymore. Since the beginning of digital photography, we've been sharpening to counteract the effects of the AA filter, but most review sites don't get into this for some reason when evaluating the new AA filter-less varieties of cameras.
     
  11. rogerc

    rogerc SC Regular

    57
    May 16, 2013
    The Hexagonal.
    Earlier this year, the rumors of Sony preparing a new phone with a new sensor for its camera gave light to a new jpeg engine developed at Sony to improve the jpeg drawing of their cameras. Sony, aware that many amateurs and professionals complained that their jpeg drawing is the worst in the industry (see Fuji, Canon and Nikon jpegs vs their RAWs) began developing a new algorithm that is meant to launch either now (with the new cybershots) or at the time of the phone launch, codename Honami.

    (SR3) New “honamiâ€￾ JPEG engine “supposedlyâ€￾ developed for Alpha and NEX too? | sonyalpharumors

    If the RX1R and RX100m2 are using this new algorithm, then the Imaging Resource Jpeg to Jpeg comparison may be flawed.

    Like Ray says, better wait for the RAWs.
    But we have them already, at least for the RX1R:

    Digital Photography Review

    and

    Digital Photography Review

    What we see there is that the jump from the AA equipped RX1 to the AA-less RX1R is not THAT big. It is consistent with the D800 and D800E versions for Nikon.
    There is a gain, but not considerably more as to switch for current RX1 owners.
    Worth noting, RX1R, if you do a lot of cityscapes, will plague you with a lot of moire.
    For landscapes, it will be the better camera but, again, not by incredibly much.

    The margin of difference between R and non-R will be in the eye of the beholder. I for one, will not switch, but someone who is yet to own an RX1 can go for either and be really happy with it.
    Let's also remember Tobinators comparison of RX1 vs Leica M w/ 35mm Summicron at which the man mentioned the RX1 gave a sharper result vs the Leica.

    http://tobinators.com/blog/index.php/2013/04/everything-else/sony-rx1-v-leica-m-240/

    On the RX100m2, however, there is a real improvement with an all new sensor.
     
  12. Ray Sachs

    Ray Sachs SC Legend

    Sep 21, 2010
    Not too far from Philly
    you should be able to figure it out...
    I honestly have to look pretty hard to notice a difference in that first pair. If I have to look that hard at 100%, at any even remotely normal viewing size, I'd never see it. I sort of went through this when comparing the Coolpix A and the DP1M - in that case I could see the difference pretty evidently at 100% most of the time (on a couple of images it was real hard to tell). But I still had to ask myself if I'd ever see it at normal viewing sizes and I THINK I could when comparing them closely, side by side. But beyond that, not really. And I think there was a much bigger difference between those two than between these...

    -Ray
     
  13. Livnius

    Livnius SC Veteran

    475
    Jun 3, 2012
    Melbourne. Australia
    Joe
    I guess its the hardcore landscapers that'll be most excited by the AA filter free 'R', and interestingly, it was precisely the landscape shot of the lake and trees where the difference was easily most noticeable on that IR set. Picked one up for the first time today at a local store and AA filter or not, perceptible improvement or not....Sony deserve a pat on the back for being both brave enough and smart enough to be able to put so much camera in such a small package, frankly I was stunned, I mean I knew it was small, I just never imagined it was THAT small. Bodes well for the future and for guys like me who have absolutely no interest whatsoever in lugging around gigantic DSLR lumps....whatever the inherent compromises are, I'll make 'em. Gladly.
     
  14. serhan

    serhan SC All-Pro

    May 7, 2011
    NYC
    LL first impressions review confirms Amin's posting:
    Sony RX1R

     
  15. Armanius

    Armanius Bring Jack back!

    Jan 11, 2011
    Houston, Texas
    Jack
    It'll be interesting when we get to see some sample RAW files. But it was "nice" of Sony not to increase the price of the filter-less version. It's always good to have more options, especially when it doesn't involve a price increase.
     
  16. Armanius

    Armanius Bring Jack back!

    Jan 11, 2011
    Houston, Texas
    Jack
    Speaking of RAW file comparisons ...

    Digital Photography Review

    Interestingly, when using DPR's comparison tool, the NEX7's RAW file at ISO 100 appears to render more detail than either the RX1 or RX1r.
     
  17. Biro

    Biro SC All-Pro

    Aug 7, 2011
    Jersey Shore
    Steve
    Exactly. This is why the less-expensive, AA filter-equipped versions of otherwise-identical cameras are the bargains worth paying attention to: Nikon D800 vs. 800E, Pentax K-5II vs. K-5IIs and maybe even the Sony RX100 vs. RX100M2 if you don't need the BSI sensor.
     
  18. Lucille

    Lucille SC Veteran

    324
    Aug 20, 2012
    Hepcat City
    Hmmmmm......

    I'll probably get one, I need a backup for my e-pl1.
     
  19. serhan

    serhan SC All-Pro

    May 7, 2011
    NYC
    I was saying the same thing for Nikon D600 and nex-7 is even sharper then all. So maybe there is some raw image cooking ...

     
  20. Gubrz

    Gubrz O.* Gonzo's & Bentley's Dad

    979
    Jun 5, 2012
    Austin, TX
    Eliot
    uh oh, paint swirl moire! :D hehehe