Sony RX100 IV announced.

Discussion in 'Sony Forum' started by lenshoarder, Jun 10, 2015.

  1. lenshoarder

    lenshoarder SC Veteran

    383
    Mar 7, 2012
  2. Ray Sachs

    Ray Sachs SC Legend

    Sep 21, 2010
    Not too far from Philly
    you should be able to figure it out...
    The RX10 II also, BTW, which seems to share the same sensor and video improvements.

    Interesting. This had been rumored to be coming with a 4/3 sensor, much like the LX100. I guess not. I wonder how much of an improvement the "stacked" sensor is. Other than that, not being a video shooter, this one is pretty underwhelming to me. As is the RX10 II. But if that sensor really makes a big difference, I look forward to it getting out to the other users of the 1" chip...

    -Ray
     
  3. Chris2500dk

    Chris2500dk SC Top Veteran

    598
    Dec 22, 2011
    Copenhagen, Denmark
    The 1/32000 electronic shutter could be nice for sunny days.
    16 fps shooting, I guess it could come in handy.
    I wonder if they'll have an easy way to grab frames from a 4K video clip, I could see that being fun.

    All in all probably not a huge upgrade, but it'll push down the mk3 prices.
    I was hoping for a touch screen.
     
  4. lenshoarder

    lenshoarder SC Veteran

    383
    Mar 7, 2012
    Sony does a variety of things with stacked sensors. Everything from increased sensitivity, to PDAF support to full RGB processing like Foveon. In this case, I think it only increased sensitivity. I think of it as BSI 2.

    Video is very important to me. So 4K is big. But even if you don't do video, some people shoot 4K video instead of stills now since those are 8MP frames. It's a uber burst mode that goes on for a really long time.
     
  5. lenshoarder

    lenshoarder SC Veteran

    383
    Mar 7, 2012
    Just use a video editor and grab any frame you want.
     
  6. Ray Sachs

    Ray Sachs SC Legend

    Sep 21, 2010
    Not too far from Philly
    you should be able to figure it out...
    Yeah, I'd been thinking about how revolutionary it could be to start pulling stills from 4K video, but that messes up my whole concept of what photography is, or at least is to me, to a point that I can't see doing it. There's something about nailing the moment and JUST THAT moment that appeals to me from a process standpoint. Or composing a really nice shot, which would be really different if you were just walking around it taking movies. That's for the next generation I think...

    -Ray
     
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  7. Richard

    Richard SC Top Veteran

    564
    Feb 1, 2013
    Marlow, UK
    This set me thinking about how a grabbed still from a 4K video would compare with my current arrangement - which is a Mark 1 RX100 set to record stills of 5472 x 3648 pixels, or a little under 20 megapixels in total.

    By contrast, each frame from a 4K video is 4096 x 2160 pixels, or a little under 9 megapixels in total.

    So that's a reduction by 50% of the data I'm currently gathering, and a rather peculiar aspect ratio of 1.9:1 rather than my current 1.5:1, were I to use the entire frame for the still.

    So selecting stills from a 4K sequence might be handy, but it's not going to do anything for image quality.

    -R
     
  8. davidzvi

    davidzvi SC Regular

    180
    Apr 18, 2014
    David
    I guess the sensor tech might be interesting. But I would have rather an LX100 style camera.
     
  9. Ray Sachs

    Ray Sachs SC Legend

    Sep 21, 2010
    Not too far from Philly
    you should be able to figure it out...
    A lot of fine photos were taken with 6mp DSLRs and other digicams. I don't think the point with grabs from 4k video is that it's as good as the best IQ stills, but that's it's finally very very good - good enough to hold up as still photos. I think that if that way of capturing stills suits you, the quality is finally good enough to make it work. Not the best IQ certainly, but pretty good. Hell, it was just a couple of years ago I was happily shooting with the Fuji X10, a 12mp EXR sensor that got its best results pairing pixels to give you a 6mp image. And I still have images from that camera I'm real happy with. 9mp isn't bad and for a video grab it's basically amazing...

    The shooting process doesn't sound like fun to me, but I'm sure it will suit a lot of people really well.... Particularly for shooting sports and stuff - just make a video and pull out stills of the key moments...

    -Ray
     
  10. SnapDawg

    SnapDawg Rorschach Test Pilot

    651
    Apr 18, 2014
    Canary Islands
    Ken
    I'd really like to see compact successors to Fujis X10/20 and X100 based on a 16 or 20MP one-inch sensor - with optical or hybrid viewfinder, fast glass and all the Fuji goodies.
     
  11. Ray Sachs

    Ray Sachs SC Legend

    Sep 21, 2010
    Not too far from Philly
    you should be able to figure it out...
    Yeah, why they did the X30 with a 2/3 sensor when that whole segment was moving to 1" and 4/3 was really surprising to me. I'd have considered that cam if it had been 1" and the zoom started at 24mm instead of 28...

    -Ray
     
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  12. Richard

    Richard SC Top Veteran

    564
    Feb 1, 2013
    Marlow, UK
    All true.

    I suspect that there might be some other trade-offs, like increased noise, compression artefacts etc but in essence it's like a very long burst mode, as others have pointed out.

    -R
     
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  13. Ray Sachs

    Ray Sachs SC Legend

    Sep 21, 2010
    Not too far from Philly
    you should be able to figure it out...
    Agreed. I don't think you'd ever use video grabs for your 40x60" printed landscapes or probably for very low light shooting. But I've seen some 4k grabs from the FZ1000 of sports and birds in flight that I was gobsmacked by. Just astonishingly good. Confusable for stills for sure. But I've never viewed them beyond pretty large web sizes either, so I don't know what evil lurks in the shadows... :cool:

    -Ray
     
  14. drd1135

    drd1135 SC Hall of Famer

    Jul 13, 2011
    Southwest Virginia
    Steve
    My feelings exactly. I'm not saying anything is wrong with this approach, but being an amateur I do all this for enjoyment and the sport of it. If this is what still photography becomes, then a younger me probably wouldn't have followed it as a hobby.
     
  15. theoldsmithy

    theoldsmithy SC Top Veteran

    833
    Jan 7, 2013
    Herefordshire, England
    Martin Connolly
    Seconded in spades. That would have been the perfect walkaround camera for me. Heck, I've nearly decided to get an X30 anyway but the output from the 2/3rds sensor just doesn't convince me for landscape images. If it had the later Sony 1" sensor (or one of the same quality) and a 24-120ish zoom it would be a really winning combination.
     
  16. Ray Sachs

    Ray Sachs SC Legend

    Sep 21, 2010
    Not too far from Philly
    you should be able to figure it out...
    Yeah, that's a wonderful zoom range. It's why I was really intrigued with the G1X mkII. It's not tiny but a good small carry everywhere size. If Canon had used the same 1" sensor they used in the G7X, maintained the zoom range, and made the lens faster and maybe even better, that would have been a killer camera. And with a smaller sensor they might have had room for an internal EVF. Or just build it the way they did but update the same 1.5" sensor with a newer Sony version (if they make one or could adapt one of their existing sensors). Man, but for the sensor, I'd have been all over that camera.

    -Ray
     
  17. ean10775

    ean10775 SC Regular

    159
    Feb 25, 2013
    Cleveland, Ohio
    Eric
    Just think about how amazing pulling screen grabs from 4K video would be for selfies...10 seconds of video could give you 600 potential selfies - perfect for finding just the right amount of lip pout.
     
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  18. Richard

    Richard SC Top Veteran

    564
    Feb 1, 2013
    Marlow, UK
    And just think what fun you're going to have with file management and backup arrangements when you start gathering several GB of data every minute.

    -R
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2015
  19. lenshoarder

    lenshoarder SC Veteran

    383
    Mar 7, 2012
    Drives are cheap. :) I've been there for years already. I shoot 3 brackets RAW. So every time I snap a shot, I think of it as 100MB. I can easily hit the shutter 10 times a minute.

    I do think continuous photography is the future. There have probably been discussions like this every time there's been a paradigm shift. The guys shooting tintype probably said that new fangle film was too rushed. I still remember people saying that digital took away from the experience compared to film. Instead of taking time and thinking about what you are shooting, with digital people just snap snap away since digital is basically free as opposed to burning up film.

    Here's my call for a future product. A continuous 4K looping camera. Ever saw something and wished you had a picture of it? Happens to me all the time. This would take care of that. It would always be on with a 1 minute loop. See something you want to save and hit the save button to save that loop. I've been kind of doing this for years, I tend to wear a camera shooting video as well as carry a camera to shoot stills. I saw and talked to one guy that had built a special rig to hold a 5D and a EOS M at the same time. He had the EOS M shooting video continuously while shooting stills with the 5D.
     
  20. Crsnydertx

    Crsnydertx SC Top Veteran

    758
    Jan 21, 2011
    Houston, TX
    Chuck
    I've been asked to start shooting some video for a local group; having seen some of the 4k footage, I know I won't be satisfied with 1080p anymore. I don't want to go way upscale, and even the Panny GH4 is a little pricey for what I want to accomplish. I've been researching the Panasonic FZ1000 mentioned by Ray and was getting pretty close to pulling the trigger until I saw the specs for the RX10 II. Now I'm in a quandary again...
     
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