Micro 4/3 The official I don't want the LX100 thread

It's right there in the second part of the last sentence. They are ridiculously overpriced because I suspect that the price bears no relation to the cost.

OK, I guess we just disagree on criteria. By that standard, every successful product sold in the last 200 years has probably been over-priced!

-Ray
 
OK, I guess we just disagree on criteria. By that standard, every successful product sold in the last 200 years has probably been over-priced!

-Ray

Not so. I give you the Nexus 7. A highly successful product that, from what I have read, sells on a very small margin and is phenomenally successful as a result. Lots of successful products succeed precisely because manufacturers keep margins low and generate greater sales.
 
I think the very notion of "overpriced" is actually buyer-dependent. What is overpriced to one is fine for another and has no bearing and what the item's costs (material, labor, distribution, R & D, etc.) actually are.
 
Not so. I give you the Nexus 7. A highly successful product that, from what I have read, sells on a very small margin and is phenomenally successful as a result. Lots of successful products succeed precisely because manufacturers keep margins low and generate greater sales.

There are a lot of different paths to profit, and setting prices lower to sell higher volumes is one of them, but I don't think it often has a particular relationship to the cost of development and manufacturing. Although in a wildly competitive market for commodities like smartphones and tablets, I'd imagine EVERYONE (with the possible exception of Apple) is selling at incredily tight margins. I just don't think there's that much differentiating the best from the rest there, whereas with cameras, it's different. If the Lexus 7 had somehow managed to get a two year technological jump on the competition (as the RX100 did and LX100 might) and offered a far more advanced product than anyone else was selling, I'd bet they wouldn't have taken that approach to pricing... I could be wrong, but I think manufacturers charge the most they feel they can to maximize profits, whether it's high volume and low profit per unit, or higher profit per unit because the volumes are never gonna be that big...

BTW, I don't really think you "GIVE" me the Nexus 7 - but if you're offering.... :D

-Ray
 
I think the very notion of "overpriced" is actually buyer-dependent. What is overpriced to one is fine for another and has no bearing and what the item's costs (material, labor, distribution, R & D, etc.) actually are.

Yeah, it's kind of like defining when someone is "driving like an idiot". If they're going waaay faster or slower than I'm going, they're driving like an idiot. It has nothing to do with either the legal speed limit or the technical limit of how fast that car can be driven safely...

-Ray
 
Yeah, it's kind of like defining when someone is "driving like an idiot". If they're going waaay faster or slower than I'm going, they're driving like an idiot. It has nothing to do with either the legal speed limit or the technical limit of how fast that car can be driven safely...

It's getting to the point where I think EVERYONE is driving like an idiot. It's either that there are more inattentive drivers on the road or I'm getting old. Worse yet, I fear it is both. Now get off my rear end or I'm slamming on the brakes. :eek:
 
Apparently it'll be $1199 in Australia which I think was the same price that the GX7 first came out with the 14-42mm lens so IMHO it's worth it's cost.

If Digidirect and Georges do it for $999 then it'll be very good value for money (my work usually price matches them) and puts it directly against the RX100 Mk 3, I personally can justify $999 for this camera especially for what it can do over the RX100 Mk 3 and the GX7 with a kit lens.
 
Speaking only as a businessy nerd (and not as a potential customer for this thing), an item's value is really just defined by what people are willing to pay for it, and has nothing to do with what it cost the manufacturer (and the entire supply chain after them) to get that object to appear on a real/digital shelf before the customer. If I'm in the pool and you want to sell me a bucket of water, it has no value to me. If my foot is on fire, however...

So to try to make sure that made sense, what I mean is that if this LX100 is priced in such a way that most (enough) customers evaluate it at the time of their purchase and say "yep that sounds close enough" then it's technically immaterial what Panny's margin was on it. You might intervene into that back-office part of the pricing decision making, mentally, and say "well I would've lowered the price and sold more units, ultimately resulting in bigger market share and more $" etc, but that's a strategic decision that they get to make, not you and I.
 
So... is anyone "pre-ordering" an LX100?

I'm in. This thing is roughly the size of my E-PM2 with the P20.... and it has a viewfinder. The biggest let-down for me is no touch screen. I love touch shutter, its perfect for taking pictures of kids playing but Panasonic tracking isn't horrible in good light and hopefully this will be better than my G5. I've never pre-ordered any tech item before.

Question, for those complaining about no onboard flash, have you guys shot off camera flash before? I just don't see the need for onboard unless its to be used as an optical trigger.
 
I'm in. This thing is roughly the size of my E-PM2 with the P20.... and it has a viewfinder. The biggest let-down for me is no touch screen. I love touch shutter, its perfect for taking pictures of kids playing but Panasonic tracking isn't horrible in good light and hopefully this will be better than my G5. I've never pre-ordered any tech item before.

Question, for those complaining about no onboard flash, have you guys shot off camera flash before? I just don't see the need for onboard unless its to be used as an optical trigger.

Two different uses for me. A crappy on board flash has no shot at taking the place of OCF. But, I do find myself using it occasionally for fill flash, or to just get a shot that is otherwise too dark to capture. Not serious stuff, but more in the snapshot genre.
 
Question, for those complaining about no onboard flash, have you guys shot off camera flash before? I just don't see the need for onboard unless its to be used as an optical trigger.

Yes, I've tried off-camera flash and I understand what you're saying. But, for me, the entire idea of the LX100 is to have a moderately sized all-in-one package that requires no extra parts that I need to bring along. I only need the on-board flash to be good enough for fill purposes and perhaps relatively close-range, snapshot work. Panasonic's tiny travel-zoom cameras have the kind of built-in flashes that I'm talking about. It wouldn't need to be a pop-up unit (although being able to bend it back just a bit for bounce purposes would be nice) - a little front flash would be fine. I would want the LX100 to be my daily go-to camera and the absence of an integrated flash would hamper that mission quite a bit. And, for $900, I shouldn't have to worry about it - especially because the LX100 isn't really that small now.
 
:) I liked the EP5 (borrowed for a wedding) and used the LCD most of the time, but when you need an EVF you really need it. The GX7 w/20 was $715.

Steve, I'm curious to hear how you like the GX7 vs the E-M5, especially if you just sometimes shoot JPEGs. $715 is a sweet deal for that combo.
 
Steve, I'm curious to hear how you like the GX7 vs the E-M5, especially if you just sometimes shoot JPEGs. $715 is a sweet deal for that combo.

$715 is a sweet deal for the combo. But I'll say this: I had the GX7 (paid $728 for the body-only last Christmas) and the E-M5. I ended up selling the GX7 because I wasn't using it that much. I never really had any jpg issues with it - I think Panasonic has made big strides in that area and any issues one might have can be dealt with in the settings menu. The GX7 is still a great camera. If anyone has real interest in that package deal, I'd recommend jumping on it now.
 
I am in a complaining mood. Better to vent here than at the wife.

It seems Panasonic, as well as most camera manufacturers, have considerable disdain for those who shell out $ for their products. I find it interesting that, considering the number of cameras I have purchased, and registered, over the years, I have not once received any inquiry from a camera manufacturer regarding my satisfaction with the product. Whenever I buy a new car, typically Subaru, I can barely get the thing driven home before they send me a survey requesting information on how satisfied I am; also asking for my opinion on how the product might be improved. In the past, they have periodically sent additional surveys to verify that I remain satisfied.

I own the GX1, GX7, GM1, and GH4. My only real complaint with any of them is the fact that the GM1 is practically worthless in bright sunlight. Adding a permanent EVF is cool; but I am not too keen on the fact that it is now bigger and does not include a built in flash. Not to mention that fact that I do not need the kit lens.

Given that the LX100 is, by virtue of its larger size, no longer a truly compact camera, Its main competition may well be the X100T rather than the RX100iii. Imagine that, Panasonic, in an effort to one up the sensor size of the RX100iii, places their camera in the arena with an aps-c camera. Maybe 4K video and the fast zoom will carry the day.

So we do not get an upgrade on the GX7 (a truly great camera, and the one that resulted in my taking a closer look at, and ultimately buying, the GH4) and Panasonic begins to compromise the size advantage of the LX and GM lines. Is it possible the GM line will ultimately become the new GX line. If I can help myself, I am going to sit this generation out.
 
:) I liked the EP5 (borrowed for a wedding) and used the LCD most of the time, but when you need an EVF you really need it. The GX7 w/20 was $715.

Wow, great deal. Was the new or used? If the former, mind sharing where from?

I have a friend looking for a compact carry around and this would fit the bill. Heck, even I'm tempted! :D
 
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