Trying to Find that Camera.... X10,20, LX7, RX 100 etc....

Discussion in 'Other < 1" Sensor Cameras' started by sixtygp, Aug 20, 2013.

  1. sixtygp

    sixtygp SC Rookie

    16
    Aug 4, 2013
    Matt
    I am shopping for an upgrade to my Samsung TL 500 (ex-1). I use the camera for times when I do not want to carry my dslr- or as a backup. Like so many threads I have read, this seems to be a common theme.
    I have used the TL 500 for travel and general photography. My other hobby is painting military miniatures and attending shows (conventions). The shows are basically art type exhibitions. This stuff is in the 54-200mm range in size with some larger pieces as well, so close up shots and a little DOF are important. The TL 500 is great for 100-200 iso pictures, but when you get to 400 on up- really 800, the images suck. At the shows, I like to shoot without flash as it really compliments the work. The venues are large hotel ballrooms.
    Here is a sample pic:
    IMG_1378.


    Handling on the TL 500 is not that great, lots of things are buried in menus, and I frequently change the iso by accident because the control wheel is too clost to where you grip the camera. For travel photos, I frequently have the urge to put the camera to my face ( I grew up using a Leica IIIg to shoot yearbook photos). It bugs me not to have a veiwfinder- but for closeup shots where I can stabilize my hands the rear lcd has advantages.

    So, my questions- I think the Fuji X10 or X20 would be a good all rounder. I was also considering the LX 7 or Sony RX 100. They all seem to do better at 800 iso than the TL 500. The RX 100 the best, but for $600 I could get the X20 with better user interface and a OVF.

    For $370 or less the X10 or the LX7 seems like a no brainer. Owners like them still, but is the iso performance better than the Samsung? The LX 7 with EVF is a little less than the price of the X20, but looking at tests it seems the X20 has an edge. RX100 has clean images, but no viewfinder- but I can stuff it in my cargo pocket when on the move or hiking. But hows the close up?? Do you think the X10 or LX-7 would work as a replacement - whats your experience with low light??
    X20 it seems to be a improvement, is it that much better for $230 more??

    Thanks for your help.

    Matt
     
  2. bartjeej

    bartjeej SC Hall of Famer

    Nov 12, 2010
    bart
    First off, that's a very nicely made miniature!
    Secondly, as a fellow EX1 / TL500 owner, I don't think the LX7 will offer a massive improvement. I'm sure it'll be somewhat better in the sensor department, and its lens is a bit quicker, but the difference won't be huge. The X20 will have a noticeably better sensor and a lens that's almost just as quick; but whether the improvement of either of these cameras is worth >300 dollars is up to you (it wouldn't be for me, but then high ISO isn't critical to me). If you'll be selling the EX1, ofcourse the effective price of the replacement goes down.

    The RX100 is a good bit more expensive but the difference in high ISO sensor performance is pretty massive.

    Close up ability - I know the Panasonic LX series is good at this, haven't a clue about the others.
     
  3. Richard

    Richard SC Top Veteran

    564
    Feb 1, 2013
    Marlow, UK
    I don't know about the relative merits of the LX7, X10, X20 and RX100 for miniature photography, but I recently gave each of those models a lot of scrutiny for travel and general photography and ultimately decided on the RX100.

    In a world without the X10/20 and the RX100 I'm sure I'd have been very happy with the LX7. By all accounts the user experience is excellent, it has a fine lens and it turns out great images. It's very good value for money now too. But I always felt it was at a disadvantage because of its smaller sensor, compared to the others.

    I came very close to buying a Fuji X20. It has a 2/3-inch sensor and another good lens, it looks classy, feels great in the hand and all the controls you need are easily accessible. It's faster to focus than the X10 and has more information in the viewfinder. So far so good. But I found the image quality a bit disappointing after the X10, and I didn't like the idea that I would have to shoot RAW to get the best out the X-trans sensor.

    RX100 prices have dropped in the UK since the mark II model was announced, so it now costs less than the X20. It doesn't have a viewfinder, it doesn't feel so good in the hand as the others and it requires a bit of menu-diving in use. But I kept coming back to the one-inch sensor of the RX100 and the image quality I was seeing from it, and in the end that's what sealed it for me.

    -R
     
  4. nippa

    nippa SC Top Veteran

    561
    Aug 7, 2010
    Cheshire UK
    Dennis
    My Macro experience is with the X10 ,RX100 and LX5 ( the earlier version of the LX7 )
    All of them will do Macro quite well but the LX5 excelled at it so I guess my first choice might be the LX7.
    I would describe the Macro results from the RX100 and X10 as adequate but what about a Canon G1X and close up lenses.
    Canon's own close up lenses are quite expensive but alternatives on Ebay are cheap and you've got a big sensor and great high ISO results.
     
  5. sixtygp

    sixtygp SC Rookie

    16
    Aug 4, 2013
    Matt
    I was really interested in the LX7, because of the image quality- seems to be a good balance. But, is decent at 800 ISO? It is a great bargain at the mid $300 mark, even with the EVF. Most of the shows I attend are fairly well lit, but I would like a little dof, hence using something smaller than wide open. The military miniature subject matter doesn't really need macro in the true sense, but close focusing. For studio shots of my work, I use my 60D. But since I often use the camera for more than shows- travel, etc. It's gotta be more of an allrounder in that sense too. The G1X doesn't do it for me- i handled one and wasn't impressed - and Ii am a Canon guy... I cant see carrying close up lenses to make it work. too much stuff. The RX100 is compelling, but for $600 I don't know how compelling. It sure has a lot of praise- and i could shoot in coal mine and get pretty good images it seems.
     
  6. ReD

    ReD SC Hall of Famer

    Mar 27, 2013
    Can't speak of any of the selection but it seems that Fuji do macro quite well & I've been pleased with the results from a cheap £100 F660

    This was shot in Pro Low Light mode with an ASA of 3200

     
  7. kyteflyer

    kyteflyer ~@¿@~

    Jan 31, 2011
    Newcastle, Australia
    Sue
  8. Neiltluck

    Neiltluck SC Regular

    110
    Apr 20, 2012
    Derbyshire, England
    Neil Luck
    I can certainly vouch for the quality of the X10 for close up and macro work. As Kyteflyer kindly pointed our my macro thread, it is testament to the ability of this little camera to perform in various conditions. In Super Macro mode the X10 is capable of focussing right down to 1cm from the subject! The results it produces are simply amazing.

    I hope you enjoy whichever choice you make.

    Neil

    Sent from my GT-N7000 using SeriousCompacts mobile app
     
  9. sixtygp

    sixtygp SC Rookie

    16
    Aug 4, 2013
    Matt
    So- silly question, would you swap your x10 for a RX100? I have reservations on user interface with tiny digicams, the X10 is more up my alley and it has a veiwfinder- and an attractive price.
    Thanks for the feedback-nice pics too-
    Matt
     
  10. john m flores

    john m flores SC All-Pro

    Aug 13, 2012
    Of the cameras mentioned, I've got the LX7. It's pretty darn good with macros

    9533471961_3abbcba53b_b.
    2013 Hyundai Sonata Hybrid by john m flores, on Flickr

    9535770067_56a7e17673_b.
    Frisco Native American Museum, OBX by john m flores, on Flickr

    The fast lens lets you keep the ISOs down in situations where other cameras are forced to go higher.

    9553563352_fcd79708b2_b.
    Ceviche at Dajio, Ocracoke, NC #OBX by john m flores, on Flickr

    That said, in truly abysmal lighting situations like a dimly lit restaurant, even F1.4 requires ISO800, which means some noise (which I'm ok with) and sometimes funky colors (which is harder to work with)

    [​IMG]
    Clams at Dinky's, Hatteras, #OBX, NC by john m flores, on Flickr
     
  11. Yeats

    Yeats SC All-Pro

    Jul 31, 2012
    New Jersey, USA
    Chris
    That miniature is really cool!

    The LX7's macro mode will focus within 1 cm of the subject. Compared with the CCD sensor of your TL-500, the LX7's CMOS sensor is far better - more dynamic range and less noise. But! The noise improvement is most noticeable above ISO 400. The LX7's lens is faster than the Samsung's, so that's another 1/3 of a stop or so improvement... overall, if your main concern is noise control, I'd consider the LX7 to be an incremental, rather than revolutionary, improvement over the TL-500.
     
  12. sixtygp

    sixtygp SC Rookie

    16
    Aug 4, 2013
    Matt
    Thanks for the replies. I have been reading about the LX7, Looking at High ISO samples. It appears to me any of these newer cameras do better at higher ISO's than the TL500. Here is a couple of shots- anther from a show table, and one from my DSLR just show what I'm trying to do. The compact camera ia easier to fly with, and usually I can stuff it in a cargo pant pocket when walking about... Of course I would use whatever choice to shoot travel pics too- just so I can confuse my decision more.

    First shot is my photo, but not my work. Second is my work all around.
    SAM_0848 (Small).
    final1-5 (Small).
     
  13. john m flores

    john m flores SC All-Pro

    Aug 13, 2012
    The LX7 will be able to take those shots. One very good thing about the LX7 is that it is still F2.3 at the long end (90mm EQ) and the image stabilization is very good. That allows you to back off from the subject a bit and zoom in, creating a photo with less distortion and potentially blurring the background. Cameras like the RX100 get real slow once you zoom in.

    You might also consider traveling with a small monopod with ball head to give you some quick added stability and let you keep the ISOs lower.
     
  14. Neiltluck

    Neiltluck SC Regular

    110
    Apr 20, 2012
    Derbyshire, England
    Neil Luck
    Hi Matt,

    Sorry for the late response. To answer your question truthfully...no I wouldn't swap my X10 for the RX100.

    If I'm honest, I have never used the RX100 so I can't comment on the image quality or handling abilities, but for me, Fuji have got it so right with their X Series compacts, I can't see me even considering changing manufacturer in the short to medium term.

    I acknowledge that there are cameras in the same class as the X10 that can produce better images, but for me it's more than that, it's the whole package. Handling, using and interacting with the X10, I find, is a really pleasurable experience and it has injected a whole new level of enthusiasm into my picture taking. Even if I don't have the X10 with me, I still find myself looking for potential images and wondering how the camera would cope with it.

    I guess it depends what you are looking for from a camera. If you purely looking for an image recording tool, then I would guess there are better choices than the X10, (perhaps the RX100?), but if you are looking for an instrument to share your love of photography with, then the Fuji X compacts have got to be worth a look.

    Whichever you choose, enjoy!

    Cheers.

    Neil.
     
  15. Luckypenguin

    Luckypenguin SC Hall of Famer

    Dec 24, 2010
    Brisbane, Australia
    Nic
    Don't have a lot to add, other than that my main travel camera is my best camera, and that pirate figurine is really awesome!
     
  16. Biro

    Biro SC All-Pro

    Aug 7, 2011
    Jersey Shore
    Steve
    I like pirates. Argh! Avast there, matey!
     
  17. sixtygp

    sixtygp SC Rookie

    16
    Aug 4, 2013
    Matt
    Thanks for the info- I am torn between the Fuji x10 and LX7. Leaning towards the LX7; mainly because of the design, aperture ring, Leica lens and the fact I can add/remove the EVF and have some ease of carry on my bike or hiking around.

    Some more pirate stuff. These were taken with a 60d (I hope I don't get in trouble for posting dslr pics).

    IMG_6689 (Medium).
     
  18. bilzmale

    bilzmale Super Moderator Emeritus

    Jul 17, 2010
    Perth, Western Australia
    Bill Shinnick
    The pics are welcome and your skill is amazing.
     
  19. kyteflyer

    kyteflyer ~@¿@~

    Jan 31, 2011
    Newcastle, Australia
    Sue
    You do beautiful work, both with the miniatures and with the photography. I think whichever you choose, it will be right.
     
  20. BBW

    BBW Administrator Emeritus

    Jul 7, 2010
    betwixt and between
    BB
    Love your miniatures! :bravo-009:

    (If you have a chance to handle the cameras you're thinking about that might just be the kicker to help you decide.0