Which 1" compact?

Discussion in 'The Watering Hole' started by drd1135, Apr 23, 2016.

  1. drd1135

    drd1135 SC Hall of Famer

    Jul 13, 2011
    Southwest Virginia
    Steve
    Well, I just put my EM1 and 12-40 up for sale on the mu43 website. (I just include that info because I know how much we all love to follow the results of someone else's bad decisions.) I'm leaning toward the RX100 III mainly for size, known image quality of this series, a sharp lens, and an EVF. Still, I'd like to solicit commentary because folks here are very experienced with this class of camera and might have insights into things I didn't consider. I'm looking at 1" because it's probably the smallest sensor I'd want and allows for a small camera. Unfortunately, I waited until after Canon and Nikon both released a bunch of new 1" cameras and I'm a bit confused for choice.
     
  2. demiro

    demiro Serious Compacts For Life

    527
    Dec 15, 2011
    Steve, I've used a bunch of the one-inchers. I like your choice, all things considered. The new Nikon 24-85 is tempting to me, but it is delayed, lacks a VF, and will cost hundreds more than a used RX100 III and probably close to same new.

    The only thing that trips me a little on the Sony is the size. Good that it is small, but still tough to say it is pocketable. It is a heavy little brick. That size also makes it hard to handle. I definitely need some kind of grip with it, and then it is still a question mark for me. My right thumb does not have enough room to be comfy, and I usually end up shooting two handed, which feels a bit odd with such a small camera.
     
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  3. Luke

    Luke Super Moderator

    Nov 11, 2011
    Milwaukee, WI USA
    Luke
    What do you want out of this compact that you can't do with the Coolpix A? I know the A has no zoom, but with the difference is sensor size and IQ, a crop should give you roughly the same finished IQ. Or is it just an itch to buy another camera since you are selling one?
     
  4. Biro

    Biro SC All-Pro

    Aug 7, 2011
    Jersey Shore
    Steve
    Steve, if you need a really compact camera, I'd rcommend the Canon GX9. The perfect tool for a suit or tuxedo pocket at formal occasions. And, despite all the Internet whiners who complain about corner softness wide open, I've been very pleased with the results I've gotten with the GX9 - even in low light with the slowish lens. ISO 3200 is no problem.

    If you're looking for a nice vacation camera, I'd give the nod to the Panasonic ZS/TZ100. It uses the same battery at the LX100, BTW. The combination would make a great kit on its own.

    It's a bit to early to know for sure about the new Nikons. But they seem very promising, especially if size isn't an issue.

    But for general, all-around work when telephoto isn't that important, your interest in the Sony RX100 Mark III is well-placed in my opinion.

    You can't go wrong with any of them. So, just decide if you require true telephoto ability and if a very fast lens and size are issues. Good luck.
     
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  5. hv9632

    hv9632 New to SC

    1
    May 3, 2012
    The two camera makers starting with "S" are something I shall never consider. One of the main reason: as soon as you buy one, a new model is just around the corner.
    You know the RX100-V is going to be available in Summer. Therefore the RX100-III is already 2 generations behind. If you press your eye hard enough against the EVF, your push it back it and you see all the blurr.......
    The Panny LX-100 is a better choice with Mu43 sensors. Even the LX-7 is an alternative. Or wait for the Nikon or the Cannon models.
     
  6. MoonMind

    MoonMind SC Top Veteran

    578
    Dec 29, 2013
    Switzerland
    Matt
    It's always hard to know what'll fit for someone else; I gather the decision to let go of the E-M1 was mainly caused by its bulk - I can actually relate to that, even though it doesn't bother me (on the contrary, I've come to appreciate a bit of heft and real estate for my fingers and dedicated controls). As for the 1" compacts, I've actually pretty much handled them all - but haven't found one that would have convinced me to let go of the LX100! And if I want ultimate IQ (and very smooth handling), I use the GR.

    If size is the ultimate issue, the RX100 MkIII/IV is hard to beat because as a package, it's very competent indeed, but I honestly don't like the handling - it's fast overall, but there are areas of operation that really bug me: switch-on time, the slight lag and unpredicatability when using the control ring on the lens ... and there's more of that; in spite of all its merits and overall quality, it still feels toyish to me.

    The G7X handles better, is quicker (and the II is said to be faster still), and the zoom range is intriguing - but it lacks an EVF; some say the lens is weaker than the Sony's - I don't know if that's true. The G9X is smaller, but the lens is underwhelming - I'd actually go with RX100 MkI instead.

    The ZS100/TZ101 is quite an interesting alternative to just about any other camera due to its zoom range, and it's a capable and enjoyable camera to use in general, but even though I'm not one to bother much about grips, I found that this camera (mostly due to its weight) made my fingers cramp almost immediately - it *feels* slippery (it's not too bad, but I wouldn't want to use it with sweaty hands - e.g. during biking ...). I ended up pressing buttons with different parts of my thumb inadvertedly - several times. I sometimes have the same issue with the LX100 when I use it with one hand and shift my grip to turn the exposure compensation - it's very irritating when it happens but actually my fault and easily avoidable on the LX100 - on the TZ101, I seemed unable to fully avoid it!

    As for the Nikons, the DL24-85 and the DL18-50 both look very interesting - but no EVF again. I like the idea of preselecting the focal length, though - but I'm not sure how fluid they'll be in operation (I found the A to be sluggish at times - great camera when switched on and primed, though) and how secure the grip will feel on this very boxy design.

    The only 1" camera that I personally felt entirely comfortable with was actually the Canon G5X; they got more or less everything right with that camera: smooth operation, very good EVF, lots of cleverly placed controls - it's very, very convincing in the hand. But: It's not really small - with the EVF, it has more or less the same overall size and bulk (though distributed differently) as the LX100 - it's a jacket pocket camera as well. And since I'm quite happy with the LX100 (it's my daily carry-along camera), I saw no reason to sort of "cross-grade". But I still might do that in the future - I suspect the LX100's place will be taken over by the GX80 I'm about to acquire, and in that case, the bigger zoom range and more fluid operation of the G5X might win me over as a more versatile and frankly snappier alternative.

    On a somewhat different note, speed of operation has been an issue I have with compact cameras overall ever since I took up film photography again - even though some of those old cameras invite you to use them very meticulously indeed (think old MF cameras), in actual operation, they respond immediately to everything you do. Even my 70 year old folder cameras (6x9" negatives!) can be prepared to be cocked and ready to shoot instantly. And the newer cameras are quick as hell - it's like switching on a light: flick (and sometimes not even that), frame, shoot. Digital compact cameras just have the annoying tendecy to feel as if they had to install some WinDoze-like updates first; they wake up like old dogs, one leg at a time ... The only digital compact that doesn't annoy me by procrastinating is the GR ...

    M.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2016
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  7. Ray Sachs

    Ray Sachs SC Legend

    Sep 21, 2010
    Not too far from Philly
    you should be able to figure it out...
    As always, depends on what matters most to you.

    • If you've gotta have an EVF, the RX100 III and IV have 'em built in (as does the G5X, but it's bigger), the RX100 II and the two smaller Nikons will have hot-shoe mountable ones. None of the others (aside from the LX100, which isn't a 1") have 'em that I'm aware of. I'm ignoring the 1" super-zooms because that doesn't seem what you're interested in, but most of those have EVFs either built in or available.
    • If you want the sharpest lens the RX100 III and IV and LX100 are probably the best, but I'm betting the new Nikons will be right up there, since Nikon isn't going for pocketability and they're putting enough beef into the lenses that they ought to be good. The G7X and G5X (which share the same lens) are pretty sharp through most of the range, but suffer a bit at the wide end - probably the cost of more range.
    • If you want the most range, the G7X and G5X stretch out that portrait length at 100mm, whereas the RX100 III and IV and LX100 are only 24-75. The new Nikon may hit a lens sweet-spot at 24-85, which, combined with it's larger size, might be the best combination of range and sharpness in the bunch. But that's not fully known yet. Again, I'm ignoring the DSLR sized super-zooms...
    • If you want the fastest lens, the RX100 III and IV, G5X and G7X, the LX100, and new Nikon are all f 1.8 (ish?) - f2.8, so pretty much a wash. The Canons stay a bit faster a bit higher in the zoom range than the Sonys, but it's not a huge deal - not sure how the Nikon will do in this regard.
    • In terms of feel and interface, totally subjective. I liked the G7X a lot more than the RX100 models I'd shot with, but the RX100 IV adds some stuff that would matter to me, so I'm not sure if I was in the market today I'd still reach the same conclusion (except in terms of range, where I would). My guess is I'll like the Nikon more than either, but I'd have to play with one for a while to be sure.
    • If the smallest possible size matters, I guess the RX100 (the I and II are smaller than the newer models) and the G7X are all pretty pocketable, but the G9X even more so, at the cost of some range and lens speed. The new Nikons, the G5X, and the LX100 are small cameras but not pocketable. If these are OK, I'd even have a look at the Canon G1X II (if you aren't too obsessed with DR at base ISO) - great range and speed and a larger sensor...
    • And, of course, if you live for the wide end of things, the only game in town hasn't arrived at the town line yet, but the Nikon 18-50 is like the Grateful Dead - not just the best at what they do, the ONLY ones that do what they do (or in the case of the Dead, DID do)...
    Lot's of fine choices, but all of 'em have tradeoffs. Just gotta know what you care about most...

    -Ray
     
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  8. drd1135

    drd1135 SC Hall of Famer

    Jul 13, 2011
    Southwest Virginia
    Steve
    Thanks folks. Ray kind of hit on the problem. I'm spoiled for choice and not sure what I really need or want. After all, smaller than the EM1/12-40 combination is a feature common to most of these cameras. I'll think more of what I want. After all, my wife has an RX100 that I can play with. I'll use it a bit more to see what shortcomings I find and direct my purchase accordingly.
     
  9. IVN

    IVN SC Veteran

    457
    Aug 27, 2013
    If an EVF is a must have for you, then there are only a few cameras that check all the boxes (>=1", EVF, small'ish...). And those are:

    RX100III/IV, LX100 and ZS100/TZ101.
     
  10. rayvonn

    rayvonn SC Veteran

    309
    Jan 19, 2015
    Sorry to break off the thread somewhat (I thought someone else would ask), but the second "S" after Sony is?
     
  11. Lightmancer

    Lightmancer Super Moderator

    Aug 13, 2011
    Sunny Frimley
    Bill Palmer
  12. Biro

    Biro SC All-Pro

    Aug 7, 2011
    Jersey Shore
    Steve
    Well, if it is, it's one option the poster won't have to worry about. :)
     
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  13. drd1135

    drd1135 SC Hall of Famer

    Jul 13, 2011
    Southwest Virginia
    Steve
    Simply Sausage.
     
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  14. MoonMind

    MoonMind SC Top Veteran

    578
    Dec 29, 2013
    Switzerland
    Matt
    Don't forget the Canon G5X ... It's not bigger than the LX100 overall (just different volume distribution ...).

    M.
     
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  15. MiguelATF

    MiguelATF SC Top Veteran

    873
    Aug 27, 2013
    Talent, Oregon (far from the madding crowd)
    Miguel Tejada-Flores
    I realize this may not be a helpful comment since the camera I'm going to suggest is not a 1" compact - it actually has a larger sensor and a very good one - but the camera itself is tiny to the point of being, well, being damn small. I'm talking about the Lumix GM5 - which I recently purchased a copy of btw, and am slowly putting through its paces. It's bloody small. The image quality so far seems superb - on a par with the best micro 4/3 camera I had used prior to that - my GX7 - yep it's that good. And while not quite as tiny or pocketable as one of those cool dinky Sony's - especially depending on the lens you mate to it - the whole package can be ridiculously small.

    I've been using mine with the Lumix 20mm lens which so far is a nice fit - slightly wide and fast enough to do some interesting types of either low-light or wide open aperture shooting. I suspect the other Panasonic Pancake - the 14mm - would go nicely with it too. And the lens it normally comes with - the 12-32 - is diminutive and seems to have a decent reputation considering how tiny it is. The multiple Olympus BCL's (Body Cap Lenses) are tempting too, in spite of their fixed f/8 aperture and their not-so-steller optical quality compared to more 'serious' lenses -

    The one thing I will add is that though the tiny EVF isn't on a par with other larger and better ones - either on my GX7 or on some Olympuses - it's nonetheless more than serviceable for shooting and framing in bright sunlight when a rear screen just washes out.

    As I said the jury is still out on the GM5 for myself - but so far it's performing like a keeper. And the ability to mate it to multiple tiny and relatively excellent glass .... is rather cool.

    Just my .02 cents. Or maybe it's up to .08 by now ;)
     
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  16. dougpayne

    dougpayne SC Regular

    167
    Oct 17, 2012
    Sebastopol, CA
    C.D. Payne
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  17. dalethorn

    dalethorn Guest

    I'm getting to like my Panasonic ZS100 a lot.
     
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  18. drd1135

    drd1135 SC Hall of Famer

    Jul 13, 2011
    Southwest Virginia
    Steve
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  19. nstelemark

    nstelemark New to SC

    5
    Jul 29, 2015
    Larry
    My solution to this was the olympus air. :026: