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X70 vs. GRII

Discussion in 'Ricoh GR (APS-C) Forum' started by Spode, Mar 22, 2016.

  1. Spode

    Spode SC Regular

    180
    Jul 26, 2011
    Singapore
    After about three weeks, i have penned some impressions of the X70. As a long time GR user, I am frankly quite impressed. You can read it here:

    The Fuji X70: a somewhat comparative review

    Not that this takes away from the GRII, but there may be a few things here worthy of Ricoh's consideration for the next release.
     
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  2. drd1135

    drd1135 SC Hall of Famer

    Jul 13, 2011
    Southwest Virginia
    Steve
    Nice review. Oddly, I consistently preferred the Fuji images.
     
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  3. Spode

    Spode SC Regular

    180
    Jul 26, 2011
    Singapore
    So did I. But that may come down to personal taste or processing method. As a really long time user of the GR, I have to admit that it produces some great images.
     
  4. Lightmancer

    Lightmancer Super Moderator

    Aug 13, 2011
    Sunny Frimley
    Bill Palmer
    This is a really interesting write-up, thank you. I have a GR and don't "get" the X70 in terms of target market, etc but this is a worthwhile, balanced view.
     
  5. Ray Sachs

    Ray Sachs SC Legend

    Sep 21, 2010
    Not too far from Philly
    you should be able to figure it out...
    Nice write up! Having used both a fair amount, and owning the third of the trio - the Nikon Coolpix A, I'll add a couple of thoughts.

    1. No mention of Ricoh's snap-focus? I guess you don't use zone-focus, but to me, that's the strength of all three of these little cameras if used for street shooting (which seems to be one of their strengths to me, but obviously not something everyone cares about). To me, the ability to move quickly between my general photography setup and my street-shooting setup quickly and seamlessly is critically important with any of these cameras. With it's snap focus feature and it's custom settings on the mode dial, the Ricoh is the best of the three for this, the Nikon is second best, and the X70 is the slowest. This is one place where Fuji's more traditional interface is a real disadvantage, although I prefer it for other types of shooting.

    2. Auto ISO with minimum shutter speed. This is a feature that I'm absolutely fanatical about - most people aren't but more and more people seem to be getting there based on what I see on other forums, mostly DPR. Here the Fuji and the Nikon are both considerably more useful than the Ricoh, just because the Ricoh won't go any faster than 1/250 of a second for the minimum shutter speed. The Fuji and Nikon both meet or exceed my personal standard of 1/500, which is overkill for most functions with a 28mm lens, but I find it invaluable for street photography when I'm often shooting moving subjects while moving myself.

    3. High ISO noise. I think you're a little too generous to the X70 here because you don't take into account that it uses a different ISO standard and different base ISOs. The Ricoh and Nikon have a base ISO of 100 - Fuji's is 200. And they're roughly equivalent. So moving up, you really need to look at the Fuji as stops above minimum rather than just comparing ISO numbers directly. To get an equivalent exposure to the Fuji at ISO 6400, the Ricoh and Nikon will end up at about 3200 or 4000, so you really need to compare the noise at that level rather than just 6400 to 6400 or 3200 to 3200. Basically, all three of these cameras have pretty similar noise handling capability once you're comparing apples to apples. Not surprising since they're all using basically the same 16mp APS sensor, the key difference being Fuji's X-Trans color array, but that doesn't really affect noise. Also, you're comparing jpegs, and Fuji's latest several cameras use pretty aggressive NR in their jpeg engines above ISO 800 or 1600, so that's probably part of what you're seeing as well. Many people call it the "waxy skin" look...

    A lot of people on DPR seem to find the X70's lens softer than either of the others. I think they're probably right wider than f4 and mostly in the corners, but it's honestly something I'd never see outside of 100% pixel peeping. I never felt the Fuji was too soft in anyway and found it's images really pleasing.

    I already had the Coolpix A, having compared it extensively (probably way TOO extensively) against the GR when they were both new about three years ago. There were things I preferred about the X70, but also things I preferred about the Coolpix A - primarily the ability to switch between my street setup and my general photography setup really quickly. I ultimately decided to keep the Nikon and not buy the X70, but if I was starting from scratch with one of these cameras today, it would probably be the X70. And if Ricoh ever increases their minimum shutter speed in auto ISO and A mode to 1/500, I'd probably switch to one of those...

    -Ray
     
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  6. Spode

    Spode SC Regular

    180
    Jul 26, 2011
    Singapore
    Ray, I agree with you.
    1. I have used the snap focus pretty often with the GR. This is a miss by me and certainly one that should be pointed out. I think I wanted to put into areas of improvement but completely forgot.
    2. The fuji does allow it and also (unlike the Nikon A I think) allows for a system override in the event that the user's settings are too ambitious to meet the needs of the shot.
    3. Less noise but also less detail above 3200 on the Fuji

    Thanks for highlighting these.
     
  7. Spode

    Spode SC Regular

    180
    Jul 26, 2011
    Singapore
    Thanks Bill.
     
  8. Ray Sachs

    Ray Sachs SC Legend

    Sep 21, 2010
    Not too far from Philly
    you should be able to figure it out...
    • 2. All three allow for a minimum shutter speed in Aperture Priority mode with auto ISO turned on. On the Ricoh, the fastest minimum shutter speed you can set is 1/250, on the Fuji it's 1/500, and on the Nikon it's 1/1000. For me, 1/500 is where I set it when I'm in street shooting mode, so either the Fuji or Nikon work well for me in this respect - the Ricoh doesn't. It's just a personal preference, but it's a strong one. All three of them will do a system over-ride by dropping the shutter speed below your designated minimum if they've maxed out your designated maximum ISO and there still isn't enough light to get the shot at your minimum shutter speed, so they're all equivalent in this function, but the fastest minimum shutter speed is different for all three. A lot of people use the Ricoh in TaV mode to shoot at shutter speeds faster than 1/250, but I don't like this mode as much because you still need to think about the exposure constantly and adjust the shutter speed to keep the ISO in a reasonable range. In Aperture priority mode, the camera does all of that thinking for me - I can just work the exposure comp dial as I move in and out of the light. And I have to be aware when the light is getting too low for my settings, but I don't have to think about it otherwise... Again, both the Fuji and Nikon are equally good in this regard for me (I guess the Nikon would be better if you wanted to go faster than 1/500, but I never need to), but the Ricoh's 1/250 max just doesn't work for me...
    • 3. Agreed, but 3200 on the Fuji isn't the same as 3200 on the other two - to shoot at 3200 on the Fuji you'll need about the same amount of light (through aperture and shutter speed) as you would for 1600-2000 on the Ricoh or Nikon.
    -Ray
     
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  9. drd1135

    drd1135 SC Hall of Famer

    Jul 13, 2011
    Southwest Virginia
    Steve
    They were very close. Of course, I currently have a Coolpix A so the X70 will have to be on sale.
     
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